Lightning In A Bottle: Recapturing the Magic of the Poker Rooms
by Keara22HI, HSM team writer
This discussion appeared in Sony’s Home forum. The salient comments have been reproduced here.
In short: the EA Poker Rooms are gone, and we all have to accept that. However, what was it about the Poker Rooms that made it such a winning combination in Home (particularly since the poker tables in the Godfather space are devoid of traffic)? And how can that be recaptured, should Sony or another developer choose to pursue a similar social gaming venture in Home?
Keara22HI:
Actually, it is up to some developer – any developer – to use the EA Sports version as a template with all that social interaction built in, and then to come up with a way to make the thing profitable. With a good business plan in hand, they can get the funding for the time and effort it would take to create it (about nine months, I’m guessing). And, finally, put it in Home.
The key is the business plan showing how it could be turned into a profitable venture which, I gather, the EA Sports Center was not. That’s where the big problem comes in: a business plan needs market research to be able to project ROI (return on investment). And from what I can see, there is very little market research going on in Home to determine exactly what people will pay for and what, if anything, in Home is motivating people to buy developers’ products.
BitRunner:
No kidding!
How could an EA Sports Center poker room have been done better? I’ll just throw some ideas off the top of my head here…
- Regular tournaments
- Betting by users on winners of tournaments
- Playback footage on big screens of tournaments
- TV screens for private spaces that hook into a “channel” showing that footage
- A publicly accessible in-space forum for connecting with other players around the clock
I’ll give you the real secret to building community interaction.
- People, by nature, want to feel unique; a sense of identity, they want to feel as valued for their talents, they want to feel like celebrities. People are by and large generally narcissistic by nature in this day and age. That’s why folks spend all day posting on Twitter and Facebook about where they’re eating or where they’re going or what happened to them today or showing off that shiny new car. Let’s just call it what it is. That’s not necessarily a bad thing!
- People want a place of belonging; this dates all the way back to the tribal days.
- Once you bait someone into your community model and they feel that they have a place of belonging where their feedback is valued and they feel as a part of an interactive community they’ll pay out the nose to stay in that community.
- People in my experience who have an affinity towards gaming are usually more creatively and intellectually minded and a little less socially inclined, and these are real opportunities to capitalize upon.
Give users that, and they’ll want to engage more with your business. Why do you think people here get so crazy about TVs and stereos and the like? They want to post their own content, they want to engage and bring their own creative personal identity into Home and be acknowledged. Is going out and buying a pre-made piece of clothing or furniture or a space going to ever really give you that true sense of identity? No.
(Editor’s note: It can also be argued, however, that part of the appeal of Home is that all of the content is created by professionals. In that regard, as Gideon has pointed out, Home is more like a gated community than a sprawling metropolis.)
Go and take a look at Farmville and look at how successful that game has been and why it’s copied so much in the gaming industry now. It’s because someone can go make their own little farm and tell all their friends to come see their farm. That’s the bait and hook, and then you have to pay if you want to get to the “next level” of your farm. It’s so intrinsically basic and stupid, yet it ties into the baser instincts of people. I didn’t even know what Farmville was until last summer; I was at a happy hour one night with some friends, and these gals I knew were going on and on about their chickens and goats and asking me if I wanted to be their neighbor — so I got curious about it, because they wanted to make it sound like the “in” thing to do and were inviting me into their little way to interact with them more regularly.
For the record, I’m not a Farmville fan; I’m just making a point.
The whole thing, in ALL of this, is making a way to get your customers interacting with other customers about your product. That’s only “level one” –you get them to interact with you, and you interact back with them. ou create a synergy that brings in identity and loyalty. The gaming industry fails so hard at this, more often than not, that it’s laughable at times.
It’s like the inFamous public space in Home, as an example. Throw out a public space for inFamous, and it’s going to have a little trailer on a screen, and a graffiti wall that only you can see while you’re painting, and a game that only you can see yourself playing, and we’re just going to sit there and hope that you buy our game. This was considered a plausible idea that would really generate sales?
You have to drive customer engagement by creating interactive communities that allow people to become “celebrities” at something in their own right; it all comes back to that driving need of people to be socially accepted and have a sense of belonging.
Tease 3211:
I could be wrong, but I’ve been under the impression that the EA sports developer that was in charge of the EA Sports Complex in Home, no longer even works there, and since the whole project was kind of his ‘baby,’ no one else has wanted to accept the extra responsibility to maintain it. And believe me, it was a lot of work to maintain. I used to be friends with some of the people that were close to the project, and even had the honor of playing against and chatting with that particular developer on a couple occasions.
Joanna_Dark_:
It is my understanding that the EA Poker spaces were sold to another party. The thing that disappoints me the most with this affair is that the community hasn’t really been told what is going on. It is pretty clear to me at least – and obviously that is my opinion – that EA Poker as we know it isn’t coming back.
(Editor’s note: there are almost certainly some legalities involved with regard to any dissemination of information regarding the withdrawal of the old spaces.)
Certainly easdRob is no longer with EA, but that in and of itself shouldn’t be the determinator as to whether or not the spaces will return. I know Rob said that if the spaces don’t return in a reasonably short period of time that they will most likely never return. That was well before the Christmas holidays. I’ve also been told by someone close to EA that they will not be coming back.
Will we get another poker space? I certainly hope so and I agree with the socialization aspects of an eight-player game with text chat – and now voice – and with the ability to interact even with those who are not playing the game directly. EA was a socialization bonanza for people wanting to meet other people. People loved to hang out there. They loved to visit friends and to play when they had the opportunity. The spaces were always busy and they were spaces that were available in all of the home regions including the EU, Asia and Japan.
And I might add that there were plenty of things planned for those spaces at one time, including professional poker tournaments. The issues with stability were never fully fixed and they had a lot to do with keeping things from progressing further. I also think that money – and I was told this by someone close to the scene at the time – was also an issue and that EA really wasn’t making enough of it to justify the expenses they were incurring.
Other games such as Blackjack and more were also part of what the talk was for the future. I don’t know if we’ll ever truly know what happened. One can hope that the Home team will let us know at some point.
At the very least, Home needs free quality venues where people can meet and socialize like the ones that EA provided. I’ve done very little myself with any of the pay-to-play venues which are now so prominent in Home at the moment. I certainly have spent more than my share on mall-related items, to say the least.
If the poker rooms were to return I know I’d certainly be one of the first to rekindle the love I had for those spaces and to renew the opportunity to meet lots of wonderful people who love to play the game and who love to meet and socialize with others.
Keara22HI:
Taking all that great advice into consideration, I tried to put together a feasible plan that could interest a developer. Here goes:
I did all the research on this issue last August when it became obvious (to me at least) that the EA poker rooms were on shaky ground. That’s when I wrote “Time To Ante Up”, about what could be done to make that space a profit center for EA Sports. Ironically, the article appeared in October, three weeks after the EA rooms had been removed.
At that time, I had 98 regular (at least three times per week) poker players on my Friend List. I surveyed every one of them – by message and in person – about what they would be willing to pay for and why. Only two said they would never pay for anything. Then I hammered out a workable plan that any developer could pick up and run with. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel on this one. I also kept that Friend List going and I stay in contact with many of those friends now. Although many do not come to Home anymore, they are in the PS3, playing games.
So: we have a nucleus of players ready to come back and ready to pay. Granted, statistically, this is a very small sampling, but I suspect it scales up quite well. And we have an outline of what could be put together.
Here’s the plan:
Same format: Green, Red, and Black tables. Same minimum chip amount requirements.
Free play at Green tables only – and offered only periodically like the way Midway is set up.
If you don’t want to wait for a free seat, buy a ‘table pass’ for the day that puts you in a queue for a table. Cost of a one-day queue pass: $1.
Next: A chip machine. Anyone playing a Green table gets the first 500 chips free. But cannot be eligible to play at a Red table until they have won at least 2000 chips on Green. So, for those who cannot stand playing at the Green tables, a chip machine (like the Lockwood gift machine) sells chips for $1. for 1000 chips. Want to start on a Red table? You spend two dollars for 2000 chips.
Black tables require a bankroll of 20,000 chips. Feel like Diamond Jim Brady and want to start on Black table, bypassing Green and Red completely? Pony up one dollar for your day pass for the queue and $20 for your chips.
Or, play for free on the Green tables when you can get a seat. Parlay your free chips into enough of a bankroll to move up to Red tables, and so on. Simple.
Winnings? You get your avatar name on the Leader Boards (like in most games in Home). No more Crowns and no items that can be bought in a store in Home (so that prizes have no cash value).
This is simple, and it uses programming that has already worked well in other Home spaces: the queue in the Bowling Alley, the free game periods in Midway with the ticket purchase option, the Lockwood gift machine, etc.
The one issue that was bothersome at EA was some people liked to cheat. The favorite method was to call each other using their headsets while playing – to tell their friend what they were holding. It was easy to do and did not require buying an extra PS3 (like a few of the more desperate cheaters did). So: program it so that everyone can talk at the table but headsets will not work. That way, if someone is really desperate to be a cheater, it will cost them some money to do it. And for what? To have their name on a board?
So – there it is. The way to make it a profitable venture. It also gets around the gambling laws the same way Midway does – no prizes of any cash value.
The first rule of economics is that people respond to economic incentive. This is not a “bring back the poker rooms” article; they’re gone for good, and we all acknowledge that. Rather, the contributors to this article are suggesting ways in which to offer a new gaming space, with a freemium model, which would be lucrative to developers as well as the Home population.
June 5th, 2011 by keara22hi | 13 comments
Keara is also known in Home as DarthGranny. She is a wicked little old lady with a wild sense of humor.
Well here are my 2 minor concerns with your plan granny,1st do my chips get stored for future use if I stIll have some when the day pass runs out?2nd 20 dollars for 1 days play on a black table seems high to me.For a few dollars more I can buy a disc based poker game and play everyday.I think the price points should be researched in-depth to see just how much ppl would be willing to pay.Also would like to see some tourn.play in any new version,it was the 1 thing missing in the old version.Btw there was a few other ways to cheat in the old version,I hope any new version considers them all and prevents as much of it as possible.The greatness of the EA poker room didn’t come from just one thing,it was the sum of it’s parts that made it work.Inter-activity between players,different levels of play,the items,the fact that it was mostly troll-free and finally the price(free) all combined to make it a fun place to play.The godfather 2 poker tables are missing most of those things which equals epic fail.If anyone is seriously considering making a new poker space please,for the love of god,DON’T copy the godfather 2 version.
Btw I think the gambling laws can be circumvented by having an item as a tournament prize that can’t be bought or possessed in any other way,therefore giving it no cash value.It could be a way to attract new players if a highly sought after item were given to tourny winners.It might encourage cheaters but I think the cheaters will be there regardless if there is a prize or not.In the EA poker rooms I encountered cheaters that were cheating well after they had a diamond bracelet and were doing it just for the leaderboard ranking.If all communication between players is cut off except communication that can be seen or heard by all players then much of the cheating is prevented.Still,outside of Home communicating like phones,computers,and actual human voices as some players will be from the same house on a different PS3,will occur but there isn’t much that can be done about those methods in Home.Cheaters are as resourceful as hackers seem to be and yes they will cheat just for a leaderboard position.
The thing is, bringing the EA template of gaming back in all phases! the godfather space still exists and that is free.do it on a basis it is competitive and fun socially like EA was. poker bracelets and all. That should be the foundation, then run incurring costs to see how it can be run on a monthly schedule and then use a pay system based on that. The thing is getting the same type of poker we had when we were playing EA back in the days. If it is too high on the pay to play scale many will not come back and it should be reasonable if pricing is of concern to the developers.
Great ideas and great article as well Granny. I wasn’t one of those people who went to the poker rooms a lot. I had and have an active social life in Home without it being related to any particular space there. But the few times that I did play it was always fun, I even won on the green tables a few times and accumulated enough chips to get to a red before it disappeared. It is clear to me from the passion that is displayed by all of the people I have heard talk about the EA that there is definitely a need here that should be filled by some developer who cares about their customers and wants to turn a profit as well. I think you have shown them the way to do this in your article, well done!
Awesome article Keara, the thing is will there be any takers for poker on home at all. ooblag’s casino is supposed to have poker related games, but i’m sure it will not be like EA.
“Well here are my 2 minor concerns with your plan granny,1st do my chips get stored for future use if I stIll have some when the day pass runs out?2nd 20 dollars for 1 days play on a black table seems high to me.”
Good points, cthulu, I should have made that clear: using the EA rooms as a template, the chips would get stored for future use. That has been one of my big gripes about the Brimstone tables -- no way to build a bankroll. So, in my plan the bankroll of winnings would stay with you even if you played only occasionally.
I was being facetious with the Diamond Jim Brady comment. No one is crazy enough about the Black Table to spend that kind of money to get there. I am sure it would be populated eventually with a lot of us die-hard players who would spend a week accumulating that amount of chips. I might, however, be tempted to spend a couple of dollars to be able to start on Red Table and bypass Green completely.
As a side note, one of the main reasons the people I talked to liked the chip machine idea was it would probably put a stop to the “All-In” idiots.
Ok I see now,yeah I would pay something then.I’m still not sure exactly how much but if I did have a problem getting chips I’d have no problem buying some,just like I would at a real casino.And I think you might be right about the all in idiots.Much harder to go all in when there’s real cash involved,even if it’s only indirectly involved.
Kearra ,great article i have no questions sign me up ,your ideas are great ,I WANT POKER BAK ,, charge everyone like the golf or slap happy ,wich wouldnt hold a candle to how full an exciting those poker rooms were ,,i miss the people just as, much as the poker ,charge everbody straight 5buks like golf ,,omg ps3 your on a, gold landmine ,i guarrantee the people i saw leave ps3 would be running bak ,i still get emails ,”did they bring poker bak yet” they bought ps3 just for poker n gone CMON what are you waiting for get to work ,an i also fell in love in those poker an some have even married ,,,please ps3 bring it bak ,,,vix
Thanks for hearing All of those That want to play poker again… we all love that space and it was interesting.. most went there to play poker nc the newest fashions that their friends were wearing that day… it wasn’t so much about poker as it was about meeting your friends and talking to new people… we had a blast and to put it simply we want it back..thanx Keara again for being our voice in this matter… I love the article and I think that everyone should support use in getting this thing going again… everyone loves a part of the poker rooms misses it and we want it back!!
I think its a great idea we need popker back on home. I had an idea about what they could do. A disk based full
I think its a great idea we need poker back on home. I had an idea about what they could do. A disk based full casino attached to home so we can use our avatares. and i would be willing to pay to play i know it takes alot of money to keep these servers going. bring poker back please.
Bring back poker!! why get rid of a game that attracts so many people to get into home?? Wouldn’t hurt to have a few others too .. like scrabble ..
Myself, I am a big poker fan. I would love to see an awesome poker room. There goes my budget. I also would like to see a matching wardrobe for a high stakes winner. This would up the challenge for most to be able to take notice of whom the real serious poker players are and not just for someone who got a little extra on their allowance and was able to buy the outfit to claim the status.
May I suggest even different rooms for different ranked players? This way you won’t have kids coming up and trying to dance on your head while trying to play. Maybe even have the certain suits for certain rooms and those rooms have the change wardrobe option disabled. Make those suits earnable suits not purchased suits. Then have your tournaments in accordance with the suits.
It’s time that PSH have a place that’s for adults only. And having a place such as a poker room with talented players, serious players would be the idea place. I can just see me walking around with a glamorous high stakes poker champion evening dress with matching bling.
And after a great game of poker who wouldn’t love a high stakes dinner club to relax in with some glamorous dancing with music that doesn’t consist of hand banging music but music designed for the more serious adult players of home.
The only problem I can see with this is that if you don’t play poker then you do not reap the benefits of the dinner club. This I would have to leave up to the developers. Maybe a one personal invite to another to the dinner club. Just to give the non-poker players a little taste as to what they are missing out on. Or it could be even some bingo winners for those who do not like to gamble.
I just would like to see one place in home that is catered to the adults of home. Not sure how it can be made to happen, but it would be one place I know that would generate funds for PSH.