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Donna: Good afternoon, 
good morning or good

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evening depending on 
where you are in the

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country or in the world, for that
matter. Our presenter

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for today, Dr. Garner, 
is actually in

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Australia. We're very excited
that she's with

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us and 
she's bringing an

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international flair
to this. But, before I

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get into more
information about

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Dr. Garner, I do want
to give you some

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background about this
webinar series and

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the Data-Driven
Librarianship and

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Corrections project.

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So, the Data-Driven Librarianship in
Corrections webinar

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series is sponsored
by the National

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Institute of
Corrections. NIC is an

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agency of the US
Department of Justice,

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Federal Bureau of
Prisons. The purpose of

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DDLC is to bring
attention to issues

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and opportunities
facing correctional

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librarians today. 
DDLC combines data-

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driven approaches
to corrections with

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data driven approaches
to librarianship.

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In 2017, NIC sponsored
a working group

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of correctional
librarians to explore

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these issues. Their
work inspired a new

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generation of training
and resources to

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respond to the complex
needs of today's

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correctional library
professionals.

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This webinar series is
part of that effort.

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Today, my colleague,
Leslie LeMaster, whom

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you've already 
met, will be your

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moderator. And, as you
know, I am Donna

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Ledbetter I am writer
editor for the

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National Institute
of Corrections and

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project manager for
the Data-Driven

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Librarianship and
Corrections project.

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Our instructor for
today's session as I

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said is Dr. Jane
Garner. Dr. Garner is

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an academic working
at RMIT University

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and Melbourne Australia.
She teaches in

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their Information
Management Master's

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program. Her research
interests include:

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the role of libraries
in prisons, the

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experience of using
these libraries and

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the use of technology
and prisoner

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education. Her research
interests also

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include the role 
of information

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technology and
delivering education and

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information to
disadvantaged and remote

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communities, as well
as, exploring the

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contribution that
libraries can play in

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developing 
social capital and communities.

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Dr. Garner's
PhD thesis was

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titled, "Experiencing 
the Use of

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Australian Prison 
Libraries: A

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Phenomenological
Study."

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The thesis explores how
Australian prisoners

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experienced the use
of their libraries

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and highlights the
important and unique

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role that libraries
can play in the

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lives of prisoners.
Today, Dr. Garner will

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talk with us about
that research. If

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you've ever wondered
what takeaways

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offenders experience 
from their

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consistent use of
library services, then

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this webinar is
for you.

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As Leslie mentioned, please use
the chat option in

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the WebEx window
to put forward any

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questions you may
have throughout the

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session. At the end,
there will also be

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time for Q&A and
discussion.

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Now, please join me in welcoming
our instructor,

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Dr. Jayne Garner

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Dr. Garner: Hello. I'm just 
going to share my screen with

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you so you can see
my presentation.

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Okay. So, tell
tell me you can actually see it.

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Donna: Yes.

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Dr. Garner: Okay. Excellent. 
All right. Well, thank you very much for

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coming along to
have a listen. I

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firstly, I'll just
show you what I'm

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going to be talking
about.

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If I can get my screen to turn.

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Here we go. Okay. 
So, I will be talking to you about

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a research that  I undertook and how
this relates to

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evidence-based
librarianship. A little

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bit about the
questions that I was

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asking in my research
and how I went

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about actually
getting my data and

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pulling the information
out of that data.

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to tell the story
that I wanted to tell.

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I'll give you a quick
run through the

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overall findings
of my research and

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then how that 
relates to the

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correctional outcomes
of places like

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yourself and also our
prison system, as well.

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Throughout
you'll see on the

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right-hand side of
my screen. I've got

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some photos there. I
was able to take a

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photograph of the prisons
that I visited. So, I

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thought you might be
interested in seeing

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what a lot libraries
look like. I should

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also tell you the
context a little bit

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about our 
libraries. Each of our

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libraries in prisons
have to have a

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library, but there is
no funding for any

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of the libraries. And,
no libraries apart

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from about two across
the whole country,

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actually have a
qualified librarian

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working in them. All
the other libraries

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are run by prisoners
and there's no

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attempt to get the collections
to match the needs of the

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prisoners or anything
like that. It's

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just generally a
riffle of books that the

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prisoners themselves
organize and run.

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So, the problem
statement that I was

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working with is the
fact that we do all

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have-- well, there is
a guideline that

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state that all
students have to have

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libraries.  But,
so we knew that

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all the libraries are in there, but
we didn't know anything about them

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or how they'll being
used or what the

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prisoners' experience
of those libraries were

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and what the role
was actually playing in their lives.

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So, I thought it would be
really interesting to do some

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exploring into that
to say, "Okay, we've

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decided they need
to have things, but

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then we're doing
nothing with them and

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we have no idea about
how well they're

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actually doing their
job."

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So, I thought that's what I'll try
and explore.

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This is the document that
we use here that

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mandates that all
prisons must have a

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library. And, in this
document, this is a

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document that's put
together by all the

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government across
the country so the

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different states and
territory of that

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of our country the [inaudible]
administrators from those areas came

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together and wrote
this document in 2012

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and it has things,
like what

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they're allowed to
have in their cells,

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what clothes they're
allowed to wear, how

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often they're allowed
to get legal

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advice, all that
sort of operational

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information and
within that, libraries

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turn up twice. The
first time, it's

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mentioned. Libraries
are mentioned in

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relation to legal
resources.

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So, the statement there is
saying that if a

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prisoner has an
ongoing legal matter,

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they must have access
to legal materials.

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The second time it's
mentioned, is in

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relation to recreation
and information.

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So, saying all
prisoners should have

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access to library
and it should be

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adequately stocked.
But, that's all the

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information that we
get, two paragraphs.

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It's for the whole
running of every

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library in the country.
So, that's -- it's

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interesting that they
are stating that

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it's important they're
there, but then

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they make no attempt
to[inaudible]

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themselves in terms
of funding or trying

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to build the collection
to be useful.

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So, looking at evidence-based
librarianship

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and how it relates
to research this is

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really -- this the, you
know, the kicking off

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point for my research,
was thinking, "Okay,

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we need to understand
how the libraries

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are being used and
what role they are playing

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and how effective
they are. We need to

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gather evidence." And so,
that was the goal of

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my research. And, I
was interested in

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finding out what 
the prisoners'

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perspective was.
There's very little

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written at all about
the prisoners'

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perspective or views
on their libraries.

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Well, most evidence
that exists or

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most publications
that have been put

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together over the you
know past few decades,

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anything that mentions
prison libraries

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at all tends to
relate to how they're

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funded or censorship
issues or what the

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collections look like.
No one 's actually

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go into the prisons
and spoken to the

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prisoners and asked what
does the library mean

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to you? How are you
using it? How well is

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it providing? What
you like it to provide

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for you? So, that's
what I wanted to hear

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is to actually hear
the prisoners voices

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in relation to their
libraries.

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So, the research question
that I worked with is

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how do Australian
prisoners experience

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the use of a prison
library? So, really

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turning the focus
off to them and

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wanting to hear their
stories and to

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learn about the
libraries from their perspective.

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To do
that, I need to employ

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a research 
methodology. I chose a

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phenomenological
approach, which is

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really just looking
at studying a

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phenomenon, which in
this case is the use

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of prison library
from the perspective

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of the person who's
experiencing that

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phenomenon. So, rather
than me looking in

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and making some decisions
about the role

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the library is playing
in their lives,

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actually asking them and getting
their voices and

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their stories to get
their point of view

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about how the libraries 
work within their lives.

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When in Australia,
and there I imagine

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it's the same with
you, if we wanted to

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work with prisoners,
they're considered

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to be a vulnerable
population in terms

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of research and
participation. So, I need

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to work with a 
lot of levels of

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government to get special
clearance and to

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get research clearance
to come into the

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prison. And so, it was
partly to protect

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them
to make sure that

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they weren't the
exploited or that they

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weren't being put in
the situation that

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they are uncomfortable
with. And, it was also

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to ensure my safety
as well as I entered

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the prisons and
spent time with

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prisoners one on one.

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So, that's that list 
of all the governments

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I had to work through
with getting special clearance.

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I visited
seven Australian

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prisons while I was
doing this research.

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So, one in our capital
territory, which is

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their equivalent
of Washington and

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that's a prison that's
unusual for our

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country in that it
has both men and

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women in it. It also
has three levels of

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security within it so
having of a medium

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and maximum security
all on the one site.

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They're not mixed with each
other, but they're all

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there on the one
site. The other two

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states I went to,
Victoria and South

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Australia, and I went
to three prisons in

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each across the three
levels of security.

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So, there's two
men's and one

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women's prison in
each. And, that just

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gave me the opportunity
to hear the

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stories in a somewhat
consistent way, so

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I could then look at
whether the women's

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experiences of using
their libraries was

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different to the
men's experience of

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using the libraries. And,
also it gave me the

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opportunity to see
whether maximum

251
00:12:16,387 --> 00:12:18,102
security prisoners
experienced their

252
00:12:18,102 --> 00:12:20,091
libraries 
differently to minimum

253
00:12:20,091 --> 00:12:22,219
security prisoners, for
example. That just

254
00:12:22,219 --> 00:12:26,700
gave me a few different
pathways into the data.

255
00:12:28,439 --> 00:12:31,962
So, in each that I
went to, I interviewed

256
00:12:31,962 --> 00:12:35,689
four prisoners with
the exception of the

257
00:12:35,689 --> 00:12:37,587
first one in South Australia
which is Mobilong

258
00:12:37,587 --> 00:12:40,529
prison. There, I
interviewed a fifth

259
00:12:40,529 --> 00:12:43,457
prisoner and I also
interviewed the

260
00:12:43,457 --> 00:12:45,127
staff member that
had administrative

261
00:12:45,127 --> 00:12:47,681
responsibilities for
the prison for the

262
00:12:47,681 --> 00:12:51,469
library. So, usually
that staff member was

263
00:12:51,469 --> 00:12:55,795
either a guard or
a administrative

264
00:12:55,795 --> 00:12:58,100
person who 
had administered

265
00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:01,957
responsibility 
for education or

266
00:13:01,957 --> 00:13:04,082
recreation. Sometimes,
our libraries sit

267
00:13:04,082 --> 00:13:07,611
inside the recreation /
administrative

268
00:13:07,611 --> 00:13:09,926
area and sometimes
they sit inside the

269
00:13:09,926 --> 00:13:11,801
education 
administrative area. So,

270
00:13:11,801 --> 00:13:14,897
that was a lack of
consistency across

271
00:13:14,897 --> 00:13:19,057
the country without exception.
Actually, that's not true.

272
00:13:19,057 --> 00:13:22,229
One staff member knew
something of their

273
00:13:22,229 --> 00:13:25,084
library. Every other
staff member who was

274
00:13:25,084 --> 00:13:27,241
responsible for the
library, knew nothing

275
00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:30,110
of it and was very
uninterested, didn't

276
00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:32,921
think it was very
important and had a

277
00:13:32,921 --> 00:13:35,608
pretty low view of
its value to the

278
00:13:35,608 --> 00:13:39,155
prison or to the
prisoners; which was

279
00:13:39,155 --> 00:13:40,347
really interesting because
it was the complete

280
00:13:40,347 --> 00:13:41,888
opposite to what I
was hearing from the

281
00:13:41,888 --> 00:13:44,461
prisoners themselves.
And, you'll see

282
00:13:44,461 --> 00:13:46,894
there that at Mobilong
Prison, I

283
00:13:46,894 --> 00:13:50,108
interviewed five
prisoners because their

284
00:13:50,108 --> 00:13:52,650
staff member knew
so little about the

285
00:13:52,650 --> 00:13:54,824
library that she even
she said I don't

286
00:13:54,824 --> 00:13:57,268
think I can help you
here I'll bring in

287
00:13:57,268 --> 00:14:00,496
the man who is 
running the prison library.

288
00:14:00,558 --> 00:14:03,644
So, she got the man of who was responsible
for the library to

289
00:14:03,658 --> 00:14:06,263
come and speak to me
in her place. So, I

290
00:14:06,283 --> 00:14:09,377
thought that was
quite an interesting response.

291
00:14:10,572 --> 00:14:13,369
So, what I
ended up with was a

292
00:14:13,369 --> 00:14:16,350
lot of interviews. So,
I think it was 29

293
00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:18,898
interviews all up
and each time I had

294
00:14:18,910 --> 00:14:21,371
about an hour with
each individual

295
00:14:21,371 --> 00:14:25,898
prisoner and I recorded
the conversation

296
00:14:25,898 --> 00:14:28,273
that we had. I used 
a set of semi-

297
00:14:28,273 --> 00:14:30,041
structured interview
questions. So, they

298
00:14:30,041 --> 00:14:32,391
each got the same
questions, but then I

299
00:14:32,391 --> 00:14:34,690
was able to ask additional
questions along

300
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:38,435
the way to, you
know, extend some

301
00:14:38,435 --> 00:14:40,185
ideas that
they were talking

302
00:14:40,185 --> 00:14:41,879
about to get some more
information on them.

303
00:14:42,692 --> 00:14:45,965
So, what I then did
was to transcribe

304
00:14:45,965 --> 00:14:49,441
each of these interviews
and they ended

305
00:14:49,488 --> 00:14:51,847
up in these Word
documents here.

306
00:14:52,121 --> 00:14:54,222
So, I used a transcription service
after a little

307
00:14:54,222 --> 00:14:56,437
while it's an American
service which is

308
00:14:56,437 --> 00:14:59,350
terrific and I ended
up with that great

309
00:14:59,350 --> 00:15:01,985
big bunch of files
that had all of the

310
00:15:01,985 --> 00:15:04,405
transcriptions of the
interviews in them.

311
00:15:04,843 --> 00:15:09,436
I then used some textual
analysis software

312
00:15:09,436 --> 00:15:12,432
called NVivo and
this is a terrific

313
00:15:12,453 --> 00:15:15,594
tool where you can
upload your data or

314
00:15:15,594 --> 00:15:18,029
in this case, it was
the transcript and

315
00:15:18,029 --> 00:15:22,057
then you can allocate
ideas or concepts

316
00:15:22,057 --> 00:15:24,996
(we call them codes)
to various parts of

317
00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:26,782
the interview and
then then start

318
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,631
looking at the story
that you're pulling

319
00:15:28,631 --> 00:15:35,670
out of all this. I built a big
spreadsheet that had all the

320
00:15:35,685 --> 00:15:39,740
participants listed. I assigned
pseudonyms to the

321
00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:43,847
participants I got to speak to. 
One of the requirements to getting ethical

322
00:15:43,847 --> 00:15:47,001
clearance to talk to
prisoners as I had

323
00:15:47,001 --> 00:15:48,594
to change all their
names to keep their

324
00:15:48,594 --> 00:15:52,004
privacy and anonymity.
And, they still

325
00:15:52,025 --> 00:15:55,424
allowed me to group
together some of the --

326
00:15:55,424 --> 00:15:58,004
all of the ideas that
were coming out of

327
00:15:58,004 --> 00:16:00,083
the interviews. It
also allowed me to

328
00:16:00,083 --> 00:16:04,090
sort the whole
spreadsheet so I could

329
00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:07,630
look at
whether the responses

330
00:16:07,721 --> 00:16:09,573
to maximum security
prisoners were

331
00:16:09,573 --> 00:16:11,590
different to minimum
security prisoners,

332
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,401
whether the women
were telling me

333
00:16:13,401 --> 00:16:15,928
different things
than the men and whether

334
00:16:15,928 --> 00:16:17,785
people in the
different states and

335
00:16:17,785 --> 00:16:20,106
territories that I
visited were telling

336
00:16:20,106 --> 00:16:21,988
different stories
to other states and

337
00:16:21,988 --> 00:16:23,096
territories. So 
it was a really

338
00:16:23,096 --> 00:16:25,902
interesting and useful
way to to look at

339
00:16:25,902 --> 00:16:29,147
the data from various
perspectives.

340
00:16:30,788 --> 00:16:33,608
So, what I came up with
in the end was for

341
00:16:33,608 --> 00:16:37,411
the 28 transcripts
that I had. I built

342
00:16:37,411 --> 00:16:40,615
that to pull that
down into 13 main

343
00:16:40,615 --> 00:16:43,580
codes or main ideas
that were coming out

344
00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:47,739
of the transcripts
and then those got

345
00:16:47,739 --> 00:16:50,584
put into five main
concepts.

346
00:16:50,877 --> 00:16:54,909
And, that they were the
findings of what the

347
00:16:54,925 --> 00:16:59,201
libraries were providing
to the prisoners. So, they were

348
00:16:59,237 --> 00:17:01,895
able to experience
distraction from

349
00:17:01,895 --> 00:17:05,587
their world and their
own thoughts. And,

350
00:17:05,587 --> 00:17:08,305
their experience of
time differently by

351
00:17:08,305 --> 00:17:10,489
going to the library
and also some

352
00:17:10,489 --> 00:17:12,691
reading. It gave 
them a different

353
00:17:12,691 --> 00:17:14,935
experience of Education
because of a

354
00:17:14,935 --> 00:17:17,761
different experience
or community both

355
00:17:17,761 --> 00:17:20,501
inside and outside
of the prison. And, it

356
00:17:20,501 --> 00:17:22,451
also gave an 
opportunity to be

357
00:17:22,451 --> 00:17:24,437
responsible for
themselves and I'll talk

358
00:17:24,437 --> 00:17:27,384
to a bit about those
as we go through.

359
00:17:29,431 --> 00:17:33,173
So, in terms of how
my findings showed

360
00:17:33,173 --> 00:17:34,298
that the libraries 
can support

361
00:17:34,298 --> 00:17:36,171
correctional outcomes,
I think there are

362
00:17:36,171 --> 00:17:38,639
four main areas
that libraries can

363
00:17:38,639 --> 00:17:40,093
contribute to
correctional outcomes and

364
00:17:40,093 --> 00:17:42,512
this is from the
perspective of the

365
00:17:42,512 --> 00:17:45,394
prisoners. This is what
they

366
00:17:45,394 --> 00:17:47,360
are saying is why
their libraries are

367
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,131
important to them. The
first one is that

368
00:17:50,131 --> 00:17:52,211
it can contribute to
their education.

369
00:17:52,497 --> 00:17:54,138
The second one is that
it contributes to

370
00:17:54,138 --> 00:17:56,709
their behavior
management it also gives

371
00:17:56,709 --> 00:17:59,586
them positive links
to community, both

372
00:17:59,586 --> 00:18:01,988
inside and outside
the prison. And, it

373
00:18:01,988 --> 00:18:04,017
gives them an opportunity
to experience

374
00:18:04,017 --> 00:18:06,142
forms of personal
transformation that

375
00:18:06,142 --> 00:18:08,990
they see as changing
them into more

376
00:18:08,990 --> 00:18:13,166
positive
behaviors. So, here's a

377
00:18:13,166 --> 00:18:16,332
picture of each 
of those now.

378
00:18:16,429 --> 00:18:20,461
So, the experimentation
aspect of the research.

379
00:18:20,539 --> 00:18:22,609
There was three main
ideas that came

380
00:18:22,609 --> 00:18:24,839
into here. The prisoners
were saying that

381
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:26,328
the library
helped them with

382
00:18:26,328 --> 00:18:29,062
their informal education
and also their

383
00:18:29,062 --> 00:18:32,069
formal education. And,
it helped greatly

384
00:18:32,108 --> 00:18:34,541
with supporting
literacy development.

385
00:18:36,663 --> 00:18:39,281
They were very keen
to keep learning. A

386
00:18:39,281 --> 00:18:41,125
lot of the prisoners
I spoke to were

387
00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:42,485
very aware of the
fact that they've

388
00:18:42,485 --> 00:18:44,899
missed out on a lot
education and that

389
00:18:44,899 --> 00:18:46,665
was a contributing
factor to them

390
00:18:46,665 --> 00:18:49,477
ending up in prison.
And, they thought

391
00:18:49,477 --> 00:18:51,883
that if they were
able to educate

392
00:18:51,883 --> 00:18:53,569
themselves either 
through formal

393
00:18:53,569 --> 00:18:56,860
education programs
in the prison, but

394
00:18:56,860 --> 00:18:59,540
also through informal
learning to find --

395
00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:01,670
fill in the gaps of
their knowledge from

396
00:19:01,670 --> 00:19:03,730
the books then they
had a greater chance

397
00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:06,397
of getting employment
after prison

398
00:19:06,565 --> 00:19:10,995
and not coming back.
And, I think all the

399
00:19:10,995 --> 00:19:12,164
prisoners I spoke 
to were highly

400
00:19:12,164 --> 00:19:14,628
motivated to improve
themselves and they

401
00:19:14,628 --> 00:19:17,239
really saw the library
as a place where

402
00:19:17,239 --> 00:19:19,919
they could do that
and they could try

403
00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:21,740
and read to fill in
the gaps of their

404
00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:23,864
knowledge that they
missed out on in

405
00:19:23,864 --> 00:19:26,846
their lives up until
now. These are some

406
00:19:27,005 --> 00:19:29,276
of the quotes that
the prisoners were

407
00:19:29,276 --> 00:19:31,616
telling me as they
were talking about

408
00:19:31,616 --> 00:19:32,958
how their library 
support their

409
00:19:32,958 --> 00:19:36,239
education. Not all the comments
were positive a lot

410
00:19:36,239 --> 00:19:38,246
of -- because our
libraries don't have

411
00:19:38,246 --> 00:19:40,877
funding and they're
not connected to the

412
00:19:40,877 --> 00:19:43,595
education programs
at all within the

413
00:19:43,595 --> 00:19:45,331
prisons, they were
telling me that, you

414
00:19:45,331 --> 00:19:48,304
know, we we want to
learn and we want the

415
00:19:48,304 --> 00:19:51,112
library to help us do
that. And, it's what's

416
00:19:51,112 --> 00:19:53,427
in there is really
helpful. We've got all

417
00:19:53,427 --> 00:19:54,973
these questions that
we can't answer

418
00:19:54,973 --> 00:19:57,821
because the collections
don't meet our needs.

419
00:19:58,255 --> 00:20:00,044
So, it was
interesting to see that

420
00:20:00,044 --> 00:20:01,951
they were highly
motivated to learn

421
00:20:01,951 --> 00:20:04,406
and I saw that
as really positive

422
00:20:04,406 --> 00:20:07,937
in changing their lives
and really hoped

423
00:20:07,937 --> 00:20:09,634
that the libraries
were able to do

424
00:20:09,634 --> 00:20:13,554
such a better job than they currently
did. But, they

425
00:20:13,554 --> 00:20:14,927
also recognized that 
they were very

426
00:20:14,927 --> 00:20:16,947
positive. Just the
presence having books

427
00:20:16,947 --> 00:20:20,669
there was helpful.
And, the behavior

428
00:20:20,669 --> 00:20:23,638
management. There were
sort of three main

429
00:20:23,638 --> 00:20:25,993
ideas that came out
of this. Looking at

430
00:20:26,253 --> 00:20:29,483
the library at the
therapeutic space. As a

431
00:20:29,483 --> 00:20:32,925
place to come to to
get some quiet and

432
00:20:32,925 --> 00:20:35,161
change away from the
cell or away from

433
00:20:35,161 --> 00:20:38,409
the cell block without
leaving. They

434
00:20:39,068 --> 00:20:42,080
were able to use the library
as a place to

435
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,310
calm down in if they
were feeling that

436
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:46,678
whether, you know, anxious
or angry or upset.

437
00:20:46,678 --> 00:20:49,012
Many of them talked
about the fact

438
00:20:49,012 --> 00:20:50,938
they could pick books and
it would take them

439
00:20:50,938 --> 00:20:54,001
somewhere else and it would
take them out of their head.

440
00:20:54,001 --> 00:20:56,421
It would remove them
from the situation

441
00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:59,803
and it would help
them calm down. Others

442
00:20:59,803 --> 00:21:02,446
actually talked
about, you know, not

443
00:21:02,446 --> 00:21:04,948
taking drugs in prison
because they said

444
00:21:04,948 --> 00:21:06,652
they didn't need to. They
used to take drugs

445
00:21:06,667 --> 00:21:09,445
in prison to, you know,
remove themselves

446
00:21:09,445 --> 00:21:11,882
from the situation
and that they were

447
00:21:11,882 --> 00:21:15,069
able to do that with
books because that

448
00:21:15,069 --> 00:21:17,980
was what they needed
was was that a way

449
00:21:17,980 --> 00:21:20,896
of going to turn off
what's going on in their heads.

450
00:21:21,910 --> 00:21:23,519
And, also something
that was really

451
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:25,156
important there 
was the idea of

452
00:21:25,156 --> 00:21:27,928
autonomies. They were
saying in prison,

453
00:21:28,255 --> 00:21:30,734
there's the decisions
are taken for us.

454
00:21:30,734 --> 00:21:32,632
We're told what to
eat, when the lights

455
00:21:32,632 --> 00:21:34,592
are going up, what we
can wear, who we can

456
00:21:34,592 --> 00:21:36,587
talk to absolutely
every decision was

457
00:21:36,587 --> 00:21:38,686
taken from them
except for when they

458
00:21:38,686 --> 00:21:40,458
came to the library.
They could make a

459
00:21:40,458 --> 00:21:42,496
choice. They could
choose what book to

460
00:21:42,496 --> 00:21:44,709
read or they could
choose to site down

461
00:21:44,709 --> 00:21:46,256
and read in the
library or they could choose to

462
00:21:46,256 --> 00:21:48,178
take something back
to their cell. So,

463
00:21:48,178 --> 00:21:50,542
that was very
valuable to them. The

464
00:21:50,542 --> 00:21:53,783
opportunity to make
some choices for themselves

465
00:21:54,311 --> 00:21:56,655
leads to some
of the ideas that

466
00:21:56,655 --> 00:21:59,835
were coming out of
this idea of managing

467
00:21:59,835 --> 00:22:02,015
behavior through
the library.

468
00:22:02,802 --> 00:22:07,428
And I saw some really
nice things. And actually,

469
00:22:07,428 --> 00:22:09,114
I  also visited a
couple of libraries

470
00:22:09,114 --> 00:22:12,661
in England and I saw
some lovely things

471
00:22:12,661 --> 00:22:14,956
with some prison
guards actually read --

472
00:22:14,956 --> 00:22:17,417
listening to
prisoners practice their

473
00:22:17,417 --> 00:22:19,839
reading in their
libraries over there. I

474
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:22,832
thought that was a
terrific way of

475
00:22:22,832 --> 00:22:25,372
building a relationship
between the

476
00:22:25,372 --> 00:22:27,578
staff and the prisoners
and that was

477
00:22:27,578 --> 00:22:30,543
highly valued by the
prison staff there,

478
00:22:30,543 --> 00:22:33,816
as well. This is some
of the quotes that

479
00:22:33,816 --> 00:22:36,671
I was getting from
people talking about

480
00:22:36,671 --> 00:22:39,333
how the libraries help
them with their behavior.

481
00:22:42,034 --> 00:22:43,802
I'll just let you
read through those.

482
00:22:49,041 --> 00:22:51,736
So, you can see
quite clear

483
00:22:51,736 --> 00:22:54,845
message there that
the reading and

484
00:22:54,845 --> 00:22:57,099
libraries were having
a high impact on

485
00:22:57,099 --> 00:22:58,761
their behaviors.
And then, therefore,

486
00:22:58,761 --> 00:23:00,851
they had the safety
of of themselves and

487
00:23:00,851 --> 00:23:02,083
others around them.

488
00:23:03,576 --> 00:23:07,186
The other concept that we looked at
was the way the

489
00:23:07,186 --> 00:23:09,456
library helped prisoners
stay connected

490
00:23:09,456 --> 00:23:13,714
to a community, both
to people by the

491
00:23:13,714 --> 00:23:15,803
prison and also
people outside the prison.

492
00:23:16,092 --> 00:23:18,371
And, that idea
of the library

493
00:23:18,371 --> 00:23:21,441
as a gathering place.
There was a really

494
00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:24,013
strong message that
a library within a

495
00:23:24,013 --> 00:23:26,134
prison, if they were
able to gain access

496
00:23:26,134 --> 00:23:28,307
to it somewhat freely
so they could choose

497
00:23:28,307 --> 00:23:31,001
to spend an afternoon
in there

498
00:23:31,033 --> 00:23:36,515
[inaudible] for that afternoon,
for example. It was a chance

499
00:23:36,515 --> 00:23:39,312
for them to come to
find people, like

500
00:23:39,312 --> 00:23:41,701
other people who were
also interested in

501
00:23:41,701 --> 00:23:43,545
reading or people
who just needed a

502
00:23:43,545 --> 00:23:46,726
break from the the
cell block and wanted

503
00:23:46,726 --> 00:23:48,812
to talk with other
people. So, it became a

504
00:23:48,812 --> 00:23:50,968
place where people
could come together

505
00:23:50,968 --> 00:23:53,482
for conversation and
not necessarily

506
00:23:53,496 --> 00:23:56,269
even interacting
with the collection much.

507
00:23:56,269 --> 00:23:57,589
Although the
newspapers were very

508
00:23:57,589 --> 00:24:00,487
popular, but
just a chance to go

509
00:24:00,487 --> 00:24:02,511
somewhere different
talk with people who

510
00:24:02,511 --> 00:24:04,044
are also interested
in talking with

511
00:24:04,044 --> 00:24:07,137
people and to build
up a sense of

512
00:24:07,137 --> 00:24:09,258
community that was
built around the

513
00:24:09,258 --> 00:24:14,399
library. The other
things

514
00:24:14,399 --> 00:24:15,985
that I
was hearing at that

515
00:24:15,985 --> 00:24:19,862
time was the capacity
for people to read

516
00:24:19,862 --> 00:24:22,038
books and then share
what they've read

517
00:24:22,038 --> 00:24:24,463
with other people, both
other prisoners

518
00:24:24,463 --> 00:24:26,757
and also their families
because they are

519
00:24:26,757 --> 00:24:29,272
saying, you know, we
we have all day here

520
00:24:29,272 --> 00:24:31,179
and we don't do 
anything and our

521
00:24:31,179 --> 00:24:34,251
families come to visit us and
we've got nothing to talk about.

522
00:24:34,422 --> 00:24:36,779
So, what have you been
doing? So, nothing.

523
00:24:37,422 --> 00:24:39,241
But, if they say if
they've been reading

524
00:24:39,241 --> 00:24:40,430
a book ,they can
say, "Oh, I've been

525
00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:42,144
reading this book.
It's terrific. You

526
00:24:42,144 --> 00:24:44,000
should think about
reading it yourself,"

527
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,526
or they were also
doing things like

528
00:24:46,526 --> 00:24:51,546
reading a book and telling their
children what books are and their

529
00:24:51,546 --> 00:24:54,026
kids would read it
too and they would

530
00:24:54,026 --> 00:24:56,598
discuss what happens
going, like, "Okay,

531
00:24:56,598 --> 00:24:58,913
let's read up to
chapter three and when I

532
00:24:58,913 --> 00:25:00,693
see you on Tuesday, 
let's talk about what

533
00:25:00,693 --> 00:25:04,473
we think might happen next." And,
they were using their reading of

534
00:25:04,473 --> 00:25:07,428
books library to
build this really

535
00:25:07,449 --> 00:25:09,298
positive bridge back
to their families.

536
00:25:09,494 --> 00:25:13,066
And, they find a common
common ground

537
00:25:13,066 --> 00:25:15,111
really between them
so it was highly

538
00:25:15,111 --> 00:25:17,675
valuable and this is
some of the quotes

539
00:25:17,675 --> 00:25:19,840
again of what I was hearing.

540
00:25:30,168 --> 00:25:33,014
So, that whole idea
of finding common

541
00:25:33,014 --> 00:25:34,629
ground between people
and just having

542
00:25:34,629 --> 00:25:36,233
someone to talk about
with with their

543
00:25:36,233 --> 00:25:39,561
families was really
valuable and

544
00:25:39,576 --> 00:25:41,422
often they were finding
it hard to find

545
00:25:41,443 --> 00:25:43,784
something in common
with about reading

546
00:25:43,784 --> 00:25:47,023
and books were really
easy and common

547
00:25:47,023 --> 00:25:48,696
pathway back to their
families.

548
00:25:51,508 --> 00:25:53,699
In terms of personal 
transformation, this wasn't

549
00:25:53,699 --> 00:25:55,891
actually an explicit
finding, but it was

550
00:25:55,891 --> 00:25:58,215
more their story that
was coming out from

551
00:25:58,215 --> 00:26:01,700
what I was being told.
And also, this is

552
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,614
also drawing on
further research that

553
00:26:03,614 --> 00:26:06,613
I've done since I put
my thesis together.

554
00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:10,710
But, they are talking
about being able to --

555
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:12,395
when you're reading,
particularly reading

556
00:26:12,395 --> 00:26:14,203
fiction, there's
this whole idea of

557
00:26:14,203 --> 00:26:16,537
theory of mind or
development of empathy.

558
00:26:16,537 --> 00:26:19,299
So, they could see how
someone else might

559
00:26:19,299 --> 00:26:21,879
view the world by
reading a book and

560
00:26:21,879 --> 00:26:25,634
understanding someone
else's life. And,

561
00:26:25,634 --> 00:26:27,548
frequently, the sort
of books that the

562
00:26:27,548 --> 00:26:29,926
prisoners in our
prisons anyway, were

563
00:26:29,926 --> 00:26:33,397
wanting to read were
autobiographies

564
00:26:33,575 --> 00:26:35,202
so they could learn
about other people's

565
00:26:35,202 --> 00:26:37,605
lives and how other
people live their lives.

566
00:26:38,028 --> 00:26:40,054
They were
really interested in

567
00:26:40,054 --> 00:26:43,602
reading about people
who had had a tough

568
00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:46,913
time, had a really bad
start in life, had

569
00:26:46,913 --> 00:26:49,675
you know faced 
adversity, but had

570
00:26:49,675 --> 00:26:51,798
triumphed over that
and had come good

571
00:26:51,798 --> 00:26:53,726
and had made something
of their lives.

572
00:26:53,726 --> 00:26:55,229
They're really
interested in reading

573
00:26:55,229 --> 00:26:57,338
about people like
that. even if it was

574
00:26:57,338 --> 00:26:59,617
fictional characters
because they

575
00:26:59,617 --> 00:27:02,112
wanted to see some
hope in their own

576
00:27:02,112 --> 00:27:04,828
lives and to see an
alternative pathway

577
00:27:04,828 --> 00:27:06,665
or see that it is
possible to change

578
00:27:06,665 --> 00:27:09,923
the path that you're
on and to and have

579
00:27:09,923 --> 00:27:12,869
a positive outcome
out of a negative start.

580
00:27:13,168 --> 00:27:15,969
So, that whole
re-imagining of self

581
00:27:15,969 --> 00:27:18,417
through reading was
really important.

582
00:27:18,745 --> 00:27:20,592
That whole idea
of belonging to a

583
00:27:20,592 --> 00:27:22,946
community was really
important for them

584
00:27:22,946 --> 00:27:26,143
and a lot of them
were talking that

585
00:27:26,143 --> 00:27:27,801
saying that, you know,
they'd never really

586
00:27:27,801 --> 00:27:29,878
experienced a positive
community before.

587
00:27:29,878 --> 00:27:31,819
Communities for them
had always been very

588
00:27:31,819 --> 00:27:36,178
competitive or
dangerous, but for the

589
00:27:36,178 --> 00:27:38,698
first time in a library,
they were finding

590
00:27:38,698 --> 00:27:41,690
positive interaction
with people and

591
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:43,262
that gave them the
chance to think

592
00:27:43,262 --> 00:27:44,905
differently about
themselves and also

593
00:27:44,905 --> 00:27:47,427
about others. A lot
of the prisoners

594
00:27:47,427 --> 00:27:50,729
really valued the
capacity they had to

595
00:27:50,729 --> 00:27:53,958
help other prisoners. A lot of
them would help each other with

596
00:27:53,958 --> 00:27:56,127
their reading to
help improve their

597
00:27:56,127 --> 00:27:58,197
literacy. They were
also doing things

598
00:27:58,197 --> 00:28:01,508
like taking books
back to the cell

599
00:28:01,533 --> 00:28:04,092
blocks and giving
them out to people

600
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,239
saying you should
try this. You should

601
00:28:05,239 --> 00:28:07,910
read this or encouraging
other prisoners

602
00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:10,560
to visit the library
if they were having

603
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,762
a hard time. Then
they'll say come to the

604
00:28:13,762 --> 00:28:15,404
library with me
go and experience

605
00:28:15,404 --> 00:28:16,637
something different. 
This is an

606
00:28:16,637 --> 00:28:19,355
opportunity for you
to not just sit here

607
00:28:19,355 --> 00:28:21,311
and stare at the
wall. There's

608
00:28:21,311 --> 00:28:22,949
more that you could
be doing and they

609
00:28:22,949 --> 00:28:25,625
really valued their
role as advocates

610
00:28:25,625 --> 00:28:27,639
for the library because
they recognize

611
00:28:27,639 --> 00:28:29,535
the value that the
libraries had for them.

612
00:28:29,910 --> 00:28:32,031
And, we're very
keen to share that

613
00:28:32,031 --> 00:28:33,482
with others. So, that 
gave them an

614
00:28:33,482 --> 00:28:36,210
opportunity to be
the positive person

615
00:28:36,394 --> 00:28:39,547
and to do something
for other people,

616
00:28:39,547 --> 00:28:42,282
which was often a
new experience for them.

617
00:28:43,023 --> 00:28:44,199
That whole 
development of

618
00:28:44,199 --> 00:28:46,984
pro-social behaviors
was very well

619
00:28:46,984 --> 00:28:49,532
facilitated by the library.

620
00:28:50,664 --> 00:28:54,401
So, in conclusion,
there's ample evidence

621
00:28:54,401 --> 00:28:57,353
that libraries can
offer very positive

622
00:28:57,353 --> 00:29:00,807
experiences to
prisoners and also for

623
00:29:00,807 --> 00:29:03,102
the management of the
prison, itself.

624
00:29:03,322 --> 00:29:07,639
And, their 
whole the ability for

625
00:29:07,639 --> 00:29:10,748
libraries to change the mood of

626
00:29:10,748 --> 00:29:15,069
individuals and the behavior of
individuals I think has a really

627
00:29:15,069 --> 00:29:18,248
positive potential 
to have an

628
00:29:18,248 --> 00:29:20,921
influence on how the
prison is run and

629
00:29:20,921 --> 00:29:23,444
how the prison operates
and how well the

630
00:29:23,444 --> 00:29:27,339
prisoners behave. In
terms of offender

631
00:29:27,339 --> 00:29:30,049
outcomes, in terms
of education and

632
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:31,775
raising literacy
levels. There's a very

633
00:29:31,775 --> 00:29:34,189
strong link between,
as you'll know, I'm

634
00:29:34,189 --> 00:29:36,120
sure, between raising
literacy levels and

635
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,096
education and not
coming back to prison.

636
00:29:39,265 --> 00:29:41,914
So, the libraries are,
you know, they're in

637
00:29:41,914 --> 00:29:43,440
schools, in they're in
universities for a

638
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,529
reasons. They're there
because when you

639
00:29:45,529 --> 00:29:46,919
have access to a
library and you're

640
00:29:46,919 --> 00:29:49,036
trying to learn 
something, your

641
00:29:49,036 --> 00:29:51,395
educational outcomes are
always going to be better

642
00:29:51,474 --> 00:29:53,867
if you've got access
to a library, and

643
00:29:53,867 --> 00:29:55,991
that's exactly the
same for a prison. If

644
00:29:55,991 --> 00:29:58,303
you try to educate
prisoners, then the

645
00:29:58,303 --> 00:30:01,145
library is the place
that will help you do that.

646
00:30:01,601 --> 00:30:03,279
And, obviously,
that then flows on

647
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:06,502
to how safe the prison
feels, how perhaps

648
00:30:06,502 --> 00:30:09,782
safe prison staff
feel, how safe are

649
00:30:09,782 --> 00:30:11,115
the prisoners are and also the

650
00:30:11,115 --> 00:30:13,081
connections back to
families and the

651
00:30:13,081 --> 00:30:16,792
broader community has
a huge impact on

652
00:30:16,792 --> 00:30:18,220
the experience of
prisoners when they

653
00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:21,119
leave prison. If they're
going back to a

654
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:22,828
community that they
feel somewhat part

655
00:30:22,828 --> 00:30:26,386
of or somewhat connected
with them,

656
00:30:26,386 --> 00:30:28,726
obviously that's going
to help them with

657
00:30:28,726 --> 00:30:30,118
their resettling
back into the real

658
00:30:30,118 --> 00:30:31,992
world. And, the library
can give them an

659
00:30:31,992 --> 00:30:33,864
opportunity to do that.

660
00:30:35,196 --> 00:30:40,261
So, that's it from me. If there's any
questions at all and

661
00:30:40,261 --> 00:30:43,049
please let me know
and then we can talk

662
00:30:43,049 --> 00:30:46,101
through what interests
you at the moment.

663
00:30:47,085 --> 00:30:50,171
Leslie: And, yes, Jane, we do
have a question.

664
00:30:50,742 --> 00:30:54,832
So, in the prison where the
staff person was

665
00:30:54,832 --> 00:30:58,817
knowledgeable about
the library, did

666
00:30:58,817 --> 00:31:01,128
you note any difference
in offenders'

667
00:31:01,128 --> 00:31:04,433
responses about the
library itself?

668
00:31:04,864 --> 00:31:08,102
For instance, like, was the
library, was that

669
00:31:08,102 --> 00:31:10,636
library or libraries
better than the

670
00:31:10,636 --> 00:31:13,888
other libraries where
maybe the staff

671
00:31:13,888 --> 00:31:16,771
person wasn't so
knowledgeable about the library?

672
00:31:16,979 --> 00:31:18,433
What kind
of difference do you know?

673
00:31:18,433 --> 00:31:20,995
Dr. Garner: It was an enormous
difference. The

674
00:31:20,995 --> 00:31:22,971
benefit of that
particular library was

675
00:31:22,971 --> 00:31:24,907
that that was the
one library that I

676
00:31:24,907 --> 00:31:27,749
visited where the
the staff

677
00:31:27,749 --> 00:31:30,159
member who looked
after the library was

678
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:32,986
a librarian. 
So, she was the only

679
00:31:32,986 --> 00:31:35,524
qualified librarian
running a prison

680
00:31:35,524 --> 00:31:37,940
library. And, I think,
across our whole

681
00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:40,107
country, we have two.
And, she was one of

682
00:31:40,107 --> 00:31:43,311
them. And, the fact
that she was even there

683
00:31:43,311 --> 00:31:44,612
and knew what she 
was doing and

684
00:31:44,612 --> 00:31:45,776
approached the 
library in a

685
00:31:45,776 --> 00:31:49,079
professional way, meant
that she was able

686
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:51,814
to build a collection
that virtually met

687
00:31:51,814 --> 00:31:54,895
the needs of the
prisoners, which was

688
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:57,759
[inaudible]. The collection
was responsive

689
00:31:57,783 --> 00:32:00,713
and it was useful, but
I think, also, the

690
00:32:00,713 --> 00:32:02,249
fact that she was
there and she was

691
00:32:02,249 --> 00:32:04,920
engaged with the
library and recognized

692
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,725
its value, that it definitely
influenced the

693
00:32:08,725 --> 00:32:10,784
experience of using
that library. So,

694
00:32:10,784 --> 00:32:14,817
prisoners would very --
they'd love to come to

695
00:32:14,817 --> 00:32:16,645
that library. It wasn't
something -- it was

696
00:32:16,645 --> 00:32:19,438
no, maybe I'll do it,
maybe I won't. If

697
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:20,909
they got a chance
to get there, they

698
00:32:20,909 --> 00:32:25,215
would and they really
valued her

699
00:32:25,215 --> 00:32:28,238
presence and she was
terrific. She's one

700
00:32:28,238 --> 00:32:30,871
of the -- she's really
good at the job. She

701
00:32:30,871 --> 00:32:34,654
was friendly, but not
friends with them.

702
00:32:34,654 --> 00:32:38,622
and she was welcoming
[inaudible]. So, she

703
00:32:38,622 --> 00:32:40,488
had -- her
behaviors were

704
00:32:40,488 --> 00:32:45,469
excellent, and they
highly valued her

705
00:32:45,469 --> 00:32:48,235
presence and her
company as much as

706
00:32:48,235 --> 00:32:50,501
they did coming into
the library, but she

707
00:32:50,501 --> 00:32:53,232
was great because
she would -- had that

708
00:32:53,232 --> 00:32:55,509
because she knew what
she was doing, they'd

709
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:57,486
come in and they'd say, "I
don't really like

710
00:32:57,486 --> 00:32:58,764
reading, but I thought
I'd just come

711
00:32:58,764 --> 00:33:01,019
anyway" and then she
talked them about

712
00:33:01,019 --> 00:33:02,919
"Hey what do you
like?" and just she'd

713
00:33:02,919 --> 00:33:05,070
learn a bit about
them and she'd start

714
00:33:05,070 --> 00:33:06,939
recommending reading
for them that they

715
00:33:06,939 --> 00:33:09,859
might enjoy and she
was very successful

716
00:33:09,859 --> 00:33:11,867
in building a very
positive relationship

717
00:33:11,867 --> 00:33:14,041
between the library
and the prisoners.

718
00:33:15,078 --> 00:33:17,437
Leslie: So, that true librarian
skill set really

719
00:33:17,437 --> 00:33:18,554
does make a difference.

720
00:33:18,859 --> 00:33:20,991
Dr. Garner: Absolutely. Yeah,
that whole reader

721
00:33:20,991 --> 00:33:24,126
services, find out
about your customer,

722
00:33:24,126 --> 00:33:25,970
understand their needs
and then provide

723
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:27,325
them with something
that meets those

724
00:33:27,325 --> 00:33:29,872
needs and she did
that extremely well.

725
00:33:30,045 --> 00:33:34,111
Leslie: Absolutely. Okay. So, I just
want to make a plea out

726
00:33:34,111 --> 00:33:36,275
there to our participants.
If you do have

727
00:33:36,275 --> 00:33:38,505
questions, you can
put them in chat or

728
00:33:38,505 --> 00:33:40,744
you can raise your
hand and Donna will

729
00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:43,565
unmute you. 
So, we do have another

730
00:33:43,565 --> 00:33:46,109
question here in chat.
How should we

731
00:33:46,109 --> 00:33:49,280
use your research
to improve our own

732
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,639
library services
that we're offering

733
00:33:51,639 --> 00:33:55,560
today to our offender
customers?

734
00:33:57,003 --> 00:33:58,753
Dr. Garner: I think that depends on
what your current

735
00:33:58,753 --> 00:34:02,494
situation is. If
you've got funding to

736
00:34:02,494 --> 00:34:06,702
purchase materials,
then you can --

737
00:34:06,702 --> 00:34:07,968
you've got the
opportunity to build a

738
00:34:07,968 --> 00:34:09,965
collection that meets
the needs of your prisoners.

739
00:34:10,141 --> 00:34:11,371
I guess,
perhaps, the

740
00:34:11,371 --> 00:34:15,309
overarching message
out of this is that

741
00:34:15,309 --> 00:34:18,712
the library is really
highly valued and

742
00:34:18,712 --> 00:34:21,658
I think it depends
on the physical

743
00:34:21,658 --> 00:34:23,806
access. The library
has a big influence

744
00:34:23,806 --> 00:34:27,338
on how it's experienced
if you have the

745
00:34:27,338 --> 00:34:29,529
capacity to get
people to visit your

746
00:34:29,529 --> 00:34:31,574
library or to, you know,
to come and spend

747
00:34:31,574 --> 00:34:35,512
time there, I think
that's a really

748
00:34:35,512 --> 00:34:38,046
important aspect to
be able to offer.

749
00:34:38,046 --> 00:34:40,373
Some of the the
libraries I visited in

750
00:34:40,373 --> 00:34:44,820
in England, they missed
out on a lot of

751
00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:47,657
the positive outcomes
of libraries

752
00:34:47,657 --> 00:34:49,903
because they
have a qualified

753
00:34:49,903 --> 00:34:52,102
librarian working in
them and they have

754
00:34:52,102 --> 00:34:53,280
a good collection
and they've got

755
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,207
funding to build really
good collections

756
00:34:56,207 --> 00:34:58,088
for the prisoners.
But, they have the

757
00:34:58,088 --> 00:34:59,979
situation where
the prisoners are

758
00:34:59,979 --> 00:35:02,746
allowed in there,
one cell block at

759
00:35:02,746 --> 00:35:06,009
a time and they get
ten minutes. And, they

760
00:35:06,009 --> 00:35:08,109
run around and like
crazy things trying

761
00:35:08,109 --> 00:35:09,979
to find something to read
and then the hustle

762
00:35:09,979 --> 00:35:12,585
back to their cells. So,
they've lost that

763
00:35:12,585 --> 00:35:14,438
whole opportunity to
make it a gathering

764
00:35:14,438 --> 00:35:16,785
place or a place
where like-minded

765
00:35:16,785 --> 00:35:19,618
people can come and
just talk with each

766
00:35:19,618 --> 00:35:24,267
other and it was an
interesting... This is

767
00:35:24,267 --> 00:35:26,534
a bit of an aside, but
sometimes when I

768
00:35:26,534 --> 00:35:28,490
tell that story people
say, well, but, if

769
00:35:28,490 --> 00:35:30,424
you get prisoners in there
talking with each other,

770
00:35:30,424 --> 00:35:33,144
aren't they just going
to cause grief or,

771
00:35:33,144 --> 00:35:36,128
you know, get into
strife. It was

772
00:35:36,128 --> 00:35:38,001
really interesting
to hear that in all

773
00:35:38,001 --> 00:35:39,358
the prisons I went
to, I asked that

774
00:35:39,358 --> 00:35:40,900
question. So, if
you've got prisoners

775
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:43,373
coming in here and
hanging out together,

776
00:35:43,373 --> 00:35:45,523
how do you ensure
that they're not

777
00:35:45,523 --> 00:35:47,521
getting up to
mischief or, you know,

778
00:35:47,521 --> 00:35:49,785
leaving things in the
shelves for each other?

779
00:35:50,129 --> 00:35:52,293
And, the prisoners
who are running the

780
00:35:52,293 --> 00:35:54,490
library said we don't
allow it. So, you

781
00:35:54,490 --> 00:35:56,848
know, if they come in
here, they aren't to

782
00:35:56,848 --> 00:35:58,472
do that. And, if we
find someone doing

783
00:35:58,472 --> 00:36:01,699
something like that
then we tell them no,

784
00:36:01,699 --> 00:36:03,878
and they leave. So,
the prisoners, they

785
00:36:03,878 --> 00:36:06,025
value the library so
highly that they're

786
00:36:06,025 --> 00:36:07,605
prepared to actually 
police it

787
00:36:07,605 --> 00:36:10,415
themselves to ensure
that it

788
00:36:10,415 --> 00:36:11,440
stays a safe place.

789
00:36:11,581 --> 00:36:14,230
Leslie: Right, right. You know,
because I'm thinking

790
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:18,442
about how, you know, I value my library
in my community.

791
00:36:18,442 --> 00:36:21,009
I mean, it becomes like
a haven place where

792
00:36:21,009 --> 00:36:23,384
you can go and do the
things you like to

793
00:36:23,384 --> 00:36:26,792
do and have a
conversation with your

794
00:36:26,792 --> 00:36:29,851
peers there and
you can learn about

795
00:36:29,851 --> 00:36:32,242
things. So, yeah. I imagine
they would do that as

796
00:36:32,242 --> 00:36:35,263
kind of like the
library culture that

797
00:36:35,263 --> 00:36:38,089
they want to build
there and

798
00:36:38,089 --> 00:36:40,046
becomes a part of what
they're trying to

799
00:36:40,046 --> 00:36:41,859
do in terms of their
own rehabilitation

800
00:36:41,859 --> 00:36:43,488
of themselves and 
who they see

801
00:36:43,488 --> 00:36:45,808
themselves to be,
rather than maybe how

802
00:36:45,808 --> 00:36:48,445
some other people
see them. We do have

803
00:36:48,445 --> 00:36:49,975
another question
here and I think it

804
00:36:49,975 --> 00:36:51,581
feeds right into
what you were just

805
00:36:51,581 --> 00:36:55,119
sharing with us. You
never brought up

806
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:57,101
safety as an issue. 
Was there any

807
00:36:57,101 --> 00:37:01,014
discussion about
contraband or gangs

808
00:37:01,014 --> 00:37:02,953
that you know those
safety and security

809
00:37:02,953 --> 00:37:05,870
issues because I'm
sure the folks here

810
00:37:05,870 --> 00:37:07,706
on the webinar can
probably attest that

811
00:37:07,706 --> 00:37:09,672
that might be some
of the barriers they

812
00:37:09,672 --> 00:37:11,648
might face. What kind
of things did you

813
00:37:11,648 --> 00:37:14,385
hear about that
in your research?

814
00:37:14,846 --> 00:37:17,416
Dr. Garner: Yes. I get asked that
question because that

815
00:37:17,416 --> 00:37:20,197
was, you know, the thought that
I had too.

816
00:37:20,197 --> 00:37:22,862
But, in every case, they
said no it's not a

817
00:37:22,862 --> 00:37:25,573
problem and if it were
ever actually a

818
00:37:25,573 --> 00:37:28,445
problem, but we shut
it down straight away.

819
00:37:28,445 --> 00:37:31,643
And, they're quite
bold about being

820
00:37:31,643 --> 00:37:35,181
the policemen
themselves and I don't

821
00:37:35,181 --> 00:37:36,733
know why it's not a
problem. In a way, I

822
00:37:36,733 --> 00:37:38,579
think it's
something to do

823
00:37:38,579 --> 00:37:40,242
with the fact that
it's so highly used,

824
00:37:40,772 --> 00:37:42,944
that they're prepared
to stand up for

825
00:37:42,944 --> 00:37:47,088
its safety and also
perhaps there are

826
00:37:47,088 --> 00:37:49,516
other places are easier
for people to do

827
00:37:49,516 --> 00:37:51,056
that sort of -- 
have their sort of

828
00:37:51,056 --> 00:37:53,227
behavior if the
library is not making

829
00:37:53,227 --> 00:37:54,783
it easy for them. I
guess they just go

830
00:37:54,783 --> 00:37:57,765
somewhere else and
do it. But, it's never a problem.

831
00:37:58,688 --> 00:38:01,172
Leslie: Okay and here's
another question

832
00:38:01,172 --> 00:38:03,244
and I think this is
kind of, you know,

833
00:38:03,244 --> 00:38:07,093
something that I 
think I hear in terms

834
00:38:07,093 --> 00:38:08,882
of lots of different
initiatives, but I

835
00:38:08,882 --> 00:38:11,015
think I can imagine
this is something

836
00:38:11,015 --> 00:38:13,850
that everybody's
facing. How do we get

837
00:38:13,850 --> 00:38:16,772
prison executives 
to really get

838
00:38:16,772 --> 00:38:20,503
interested in libraries
and the positive

839
00:38:20,503 --> 00:38:22,746
work that research
shows that we're

840
00:38:22,746 --> 00:38:25,926
doing? I mean how
have you done that?

841
00:38:28,043 --> 00:38:30,133
Yeah, that's a good
question. I think,

842
00:38:30,133 --> 00:38:32,277
you've got to take a
marketing approach,

843
00:38:32,277 --> 00:38:35,606
really. You've got to
look at the needs

844
00:38:36,019 --> 00:38:38,441
of the managers of
the prisons. They

845
00:38:38,441 --> 00:38:40,766
call them general
managers. I think sometimes

846
00:38:40,766 --> 00:38:44,097
wardens, but you've
got to look at it

847
00:38:44,097 --> 00:38:45,649
from there. 
What is a

848
00:38:45,649 --> 00:38:48,881
positive outcome for
them and it's gonna

849
00:38:48,881 --> 00:38:52,111
be different to
what maybe perhaps

850
00:38:52,111 --> 00:38:53,463
what the prisoners
think is a positive

851
00:38:53,463 --> 00:38:55,539
outcome. So, for a
prisoner, they might be

852
00:38:55,539 --> 00:38:57,073
thinking that the library
can can provide

853
00:38:57,073 --> 00:38:58,839
them with a positive
outcome in that it

854
00:38:58,839 --> 00:39:00,963
gives them a chance
to read and improve

855
00:39:00,963 --> 00:39:03,371
their literacy;
whereas, the prison

856
00:39:03,371 --> 00:39:04,905
managers are probably
more likely to

857
00:39:04,905 --> 00:39:07,808
think a positive
outcome would be fewer

858
00:39:07,846 --> 00:39:10,932
incidents in the prison 
or a safer

859
00:39:10,932 --> 00:39:13,726
environment or more
people graphically

860
00:39:13,726 --> 00:39:15,737
involved in spending 
their time positively.

861
00:39:16,010 --> 00:39:16,570
Leslie: Right.

862
00:39:16,786 --> 00:39:18,557
Dr. Garner: So, I think
if you can start

863
00:39:18,557 --> 00:39:21,861
thinking about what
the prison managers

864
00:39:22,278 --> 00:39:24,263
want to see as a
positive outcome and

865
00:39:24,263 --> 00:39:26,892
then see how the
research can provide us

866
00:39:26,892 --> 00:39:28,893
that is possible
through a library.

867
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:30,971
So, it's really looking
at the same story,

868
00:39:30,971 --> 00:39:34,603
but just resetting
it to meet what you

869
00:39:34,603 --> 00:39:37,362
think their particular
interests or needs are.

870
00:39:37,581 --> 00:39:39,456
Leslie: Yeah, sell it to
them from what the

871
00:39:39,456 --> 00:39:41,254
bottom line is that
they're looking for.

872
00:39:41,255 --> 00:39:42,295
Dr. Garner: Definitely.

873
00:39:42,579 --> 00:39:47,560
Leslie: So, I want to make a
plea again to our participants.

874
00:39:47,712 --> 00:39:50,534
What are your
questions? You can either

875
00:39:50,534 --> 00:39:52,387
raise your hand or
chat them because

876
00:39:52,387 --> 00:39:54,284
we're getting some
great questions here.

877
00:39:54,284 --> 00:39:57,004
So, here's a question
from our webinar

878
00:39:57,004 --> 00:40:00,026
participants we've got
for you. So, in the

879
00:40:00,026 --> 00:40:02,733
in the study as you
were out going

880
00:40:02,733 --> 00:40:06,867
there doing the research,
was security

881
00:40:06,867 --> 00:40:10,655
provided to the
librarians that you researched?

882
00:40:11,773 --> 00:40:15,001
Dr. Garner: Well, most
of the stuff, most

883
00:40:15,001 --> 00:40:16,109
of the people running
the libraries were

884
00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:18,771
the prisoners themselves,
so they didn't

885
00:40:18,771 --> 00:40:20,061
require security.

886
00:40:20,343 --> 00:40:26,186
When there was that -- the lady who was running
the library who was

887
00:40:26,186 --> 00:40:28,230
actually a librarian
rather than a

888
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:31,104
prisoner in that one
case, yeah, she

889
00:40:31,104 --> 00:40:33,743
had in the library,
it was

890
00:40:33,743 --> 00:40:35,889
placed in a way
that was physically

891
00:40:35,889 --> 00:40:38,256
visible from a lot
of places in the

892
00:40:38,256 --> 00:40:42,310
prison. And, there's a
little guard room

893
00:40:42,310 --> 00:40:44,626
in one corner of the
library and one of

894
00:40:44,626 --> 00:40:48,274
the guards sitting there
and he'd keep an eye on a

895
00:40:48,274 --> 00:40:49,673
lot of different
things including the

896
00:40:49,673 --> 00:40:54,485
library. She had a
bullet-proof office. So, if

897
00:40:54,485 --> 00:40:57,159
she was feeling under 
threat, she could shut the door.

898
00:40:57,159 --> 00:40:59,597
She had bulletproof 
glass and

899
00:40:59,597 --> 00:41:02,504
she had a lot of
security measures

900
00:41:02,504 --> 00:41:04,579
within that room
and she could bolt

901
00:41:04,579 --> 00:41:07,084
herself in there if
she felt the need to.

902
00:41:07,084 --> 00:41:13,091
She carried a warning
alarm with her, as

903
00:41:13,091 --> 00:41:16,137
do all the staff and
as did I as I was

904
00:41:16,137 --> 00:41:18,035
moving through the
prisoners, as well.

905
00:41:18,317 --> 00:41:22,532
So, its there 
it got -- most

906
00:41:22,532 --> 00:41:24,528
libraries don't have
librarians in them,

907
00:41:24,528 --> 00:41:27,481
so it's not really a
big issue, but those

908
00:41:27,481 --> 00:41:29,835
staff who are moving
around through the

909
00:41:29,835 --> 00:41:31,725
library, even just in
an administrative

910
00:41:31,725 --> 00:41:35,448
sense, yes ,they always
accompanied by a

911
00:41:35,471 --> 00:41:37,700
guard and they have
their personal

912
00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:40,168
security alarms and
that sort of thing.

913
00:41:40,544 --> 00:41:42,802
Leslie: So, it sounds like
in that in that one

914
00:41:42,802 --> 00:41:46,076
place, there was
real physical plant

915
00:41:46,076 --> 00:41:48,278
design and it was
strategically thought

916
00:41:48,278 --> 00:41:50,744
out about how that
was going to be laid out

917
00:41:53,992 --> 00:41:54,827
Dr. Garner: Yeah, that's 
a really good

918
00:41:54,827 --> 00:41:58,977
point because that
was the only case in

919
00:41:58,977 --> 00:42:01,788
all our prisons in
the country where a

920
00:42:01,788 --> 00:42:04,603
library was 
built as part of the

921
00:42:04,603 --> 00:42:07,667
original prison. Every
other library in

922
00:42:07,667 --> 00:42:10,170
our prison system is
shoved into a room

923
00:42:10,170 --> 00:42:11,990
somewhere where it used
to be an education

924
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:14,115
room. Perhaps it used
to be a staff room

925
00:42:14,115 --> 00:42:17,463
or something or other
and it's not built --

926
00:42:17,463 --> 00:42:18,967
it wasn't built with
the intention of it

927
00:42:18,967 --> 00:42:21,857
being a library. This
one situation it

928
00:42:21,857 --> 00:42:24,812
was. It was a [inaudible]
prison and it had been

929
00:42:24,812 --> 00:42:27,690
built with a library
as an important

930
00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:29,584
part of it. It was a
physically essential

931
00:42:29,584 --> 00:42:33,701
within the whole
complex. And, yeah, it's a

932
00:42:33,701 --> 00:42:36,178
very good point that
she was provided

933
00:42:36,178 --> 00:42:38,849
with a very secure
space because it

934
00:42:38,849 --> 00:42:40,506
was intended that there
would be one.

935
00:42:40,662 --> 00:42:42,263
Leslie: Yeah, it sounded 
very so it thought out

936
00:42:42,263 --> 00:42:45,158
to me. So, here, we have a 
comment from Tammy

937
00:42:45,158 --> 00:42:47,545
from here in Colorado. Hello, Tammy.
Thank you for the

938
00:42:47,545 --> 00:42:50,326
comment. Here in
Colorado, we have

939
00:42:50,326 --> 00:42:52,667
security provided in
some of our prison

940
00:42:52,667 --> 00:42:55,937
libraries and none
in the minimum level

941
00:42:55,937 --> 00:42:58,748
centers. It all depends
on the custody

942
00:42:58,748 --> 00:43:01,774
level. Some of us
carry OC or pepper

943
00:43:01,774 --> 00:43:05,221
spray and man down
alarm.

944
00:43:06,475 --> 00:43:09,582
So, it depends on 
the custody level.

945
00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:14,261
Dr. Garner: Yeah, that's also the case
with our prisons

946
00:43:14,261 --> 00:43:16,264
and also in terms
of the freedom of

947
00:43:16,264 --> 00:43:18,678
movement through the
prison system. So,

948
00:43:18,996 --> 00:43:21,238
if you're at a minimum 
security

949
00:43:21,238 --> 00:43:23,789
prison, the prisoners
were often allowed

950
00:43:23,789 --> 00:43:26,672
out of their
rooms in the morning

951
00:43:26,672 --> 00:43:28,652
and then they might
have to come back in

952
00:43:28,652 --> 00:43:30,054
two or three times
during the day for a

953
00:43:30,054 --> 00:43:32,431
a head count, but there is
the time they were

954
00:43:32,431 --> 00:43:34,793
able to walk around
and often though,

955
00:43:34,793 --> 00:43:36,891
a prison farm. So,
they're allowed to

956
00:43:36,891 --> 00:43:39,803
go out and work
in their

957
00:43:39,803 --> 00:43:42,936
capacity in the
farming work and they

958
00:43:42,936 --> 00:43:44,287
could drop into the
library if they

959
00:43:44,287 --> 00:43:46,720
wanted to at that time
so that gave them

960
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,749
the ability to to move
freely through to

961
00:43:49,749 --> 00:43:51,022
visit the libraries
they chose to and

962
00:43:51,028 --> 00:43:52,678
that's when that the
community building

963
00:43:52,678 --> 00:43:55,681
was able to happen
because people

964
00:43:55,681 --> 00:43:57,856
were able to mix with
others that weren't

965
00:43:57,856 --> 00:44:01,455
necessarily living
with or in cell blocks with.

966
00:44:01,828 --> 00:44:03,294
Leslie: Which is a key
component of how

967
00:44:03,294 --> 00:44:04,800
then the library
kind of integrates

968
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,166
itself with everything
else that's going

969
00:44:07,166 --> 00:44:09,883
on there in the
facility. Okay, we've got

970
00:44:09,883 --> 00:44:12,819
another question for
our audience. Can

971
00:44:12,819 --> 00:44:15,069
you speak more about
the theory of the mind

972
00:44:15,069 --> 00:44:18,399
empathy building through
reading and did

973
00:44:18,399 --> 00:44:20,545
you discuss this with
any of the staff

974
00:44:20,545 --> 00:44:23,407
or inmates or prisoners
that you spoke to?

975
00:44:24,404 --> 00:44:26,583
Dr. Garner: Yeah, good question.
I'll answer the

976
00:44:26,583 --> 00:44:29,428
second part of that
first. I didn't

977
00:44:29,428 --> 00:44:32,225
talk about that because
I didn't want to

978
00:44:32,225 --> 00:44:34,560
introduce ideas into
the data. I wanted

979
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,810
to hear their stories
not my -- I didn't

980
00:44:37,810 --> 00:44:39,226
want to influence what
they were telling

981
00:44:39,226 --> 00:44:42,949
me by giving them a
story to sort of

982
00:44:42,949 --> 00:44:45,059
kick off from. So, no.
I didn't discuss

983
00:44:45,059 --> 00:44:47,886
that with them in
terms of that whole

984
00:44:47,886 --> 00:44:50,073
idea, your theory of
mind. It's really

985
00:44:50,073 --> 00:44:51,877
interesting learning
this and good

986
00:44:51,877 --> 00:44:53,963
publications out there
that talk about

987
00:44:53,963 --> 00:44:56,491
it, but it's really
the idea of reading

988
00:44:56,491 --> 00:45:00,076
fiction to discover
different ways of

989
00:45:00,076 --> 00:45:03,040
thinking and to
build empathy. So, if

990
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,224
you're reading
fiction and you're

991
00:45:04,224 --> 00:45:08,274
reading about someone
else's life, you

992
00:45:08,274 --> 00:45:11,433
can start to see
different ways of being

993
00:45:11,433 --> 00:45:13,782
and different ways
of thinking and

994
00:45:13,782 --> 00:45:15,039
different ways 
that people might

995
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:18,043
approach a situation.
And, it gives them

996
00:45:18,043 --> 00:45:22,160
the capacity to
experience another

997
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,370
situation the safe way.
So, like, if you're reading,

998
00:45:25,370 --> 00:45:29,296
I don't know, fantasy
fiction and you're

999
00:45:29,296 --> 00:45:31,251
learning about how
other people approach

1000
00:45:31,251 --> 00:45:33,026
a particular situation,
it might not have

1001
00:45:33,026 --> 00:45:34,152
occurred to you
that you could have

1002
00:45:34,152 --> 00:45:36,094
approached it in that
way or you might

1003
00:45:36,094 --> 00:45:37,861
be thinking to
yourself, Hey, I wouldn't have done

1004
00:45:37,861 --> 00:45:39,588
that. I wouldn't have
gone to that house at

1005
00:45:39,588 --> 00:45:42,099
that time. I would have
just run away and

1006
00:45:42,099 --> 00:45:43,934
it gives people the
capacity to start

1007
00:45:43,934 --> 00:45:46,229
thinking about, oh,
there are different

1008
00:45:46,229 --> 00:45:47,601
people have different
ways of doing

1009
00:45:47,635 --> 00:45:50,846
stuff and this is --
sometimes it sounds

1010
00:45:50,846 --> 00:45:53,377
obvious to us, but
sometimes it's a

1011
00:45:53,377 --> 00:45:55,812
really new idea that
there are different

1012
00:45:55,812 --> 00:45:58,323
ways to do things and
different thoughts.

1013
00:45:58,323 --> 00:45:59,877
That different people
have different

1014
00:45:59,877 --> 00:46:03,669
responses and it gives
them the capacity

1015
00:46:03,669 --> 00:46:08,358
to understand other
people and that then

1016
00:46:08,358 --> 00:46:12,272
builds empathy and
gives people the

1017
00:46:12,272 --> 00:46:14,952
chance to think about
the effect that

1018
00:46:14,952 --> 00:46:17,296
they might have had
on other people's lives.

1019
00:46:17,497 --> 00:46:19,055
They might have
thought, well, you know,

1020
00:46:19,185 --> 00:46:21,383
what I do doesn't
really matter, but

1021
00:46:21,383 --> 00:46:23,527
they might start seeing
well, actually it

1022
00:46:23,527 --> 00:46:25,832
does and everything
you do influences

1023
00:46:25,832 --> 00:46:27,582
someone else and you
have a chance to

1024
00:46:27,582 --> 00:46:29,153
make that a positive
influence or a

1025
00:46:29,153 --> 00:46:31,721
negative influence
for you. And, what you

1026
00:46:31,721 --> 00:46:34,290
do either actually
going to affect

1027
00:46:34,321 --> 00:46:35,962
somebody else. And,
some of these ideas

1028
00:46:35,962 --> 00:46:38,008
are really quite new
for some people,

1029
00:46:38,008 --> 00:46:40,934
and reading fiction
helps them see that

1030
00:46:40,934 --> 00:46:43,309
there are different
ways of being.

1031
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:48,612
Leslie: Now, there's a sales
points for libraries,

1032
00:46:48,612 --> 00:46:52,096
right there. The theory
of mind and how

1033
00:46:52,096 --> 00:46:54,981
it can help build
empathy within our

1034
00:46:54,981 --> 00:46:57,870
offenders because we
know that that is a

1035
00:46:57,999 --> 00:47:01,593
trouble spot for them.
Being able to put

1036
00:47:01,593 --> 00:47:04,477
themselves in the place
of their victims.

1037
00:47:04,655 --> 00:47:06,768
We know they have
trouble with that. That

1038
00:47:06,768 --> 00:47:09,999
is a big thing. And,
the way that some of

1039
00:47:09,999 --> 00:47:12,633
them -- the reason why
our recidivism

1040
00:47:12,633 --> 00:47:15,374
rates are so high 
here in the United States.

1041
00:47:16,112 --> 00:47:19,234
So, no more -- 
I don't have

1042
00:47:19,234 --> 00:47:23,226
any more questions
here. I wonder if some

1043
00:47:23,226 --> 00:47:25,201
of our wonderful
participants here in

1044
00:47:25,201 --> 00:47:28,545
the webinar have
questions. I don't see

1045
00:47:28,545 --> 00:47:31,138
any more questions
here. I know I've

1046
00:47:31,138 --> 00:47:34,146
heard some very
fascinating things

1047
00:47:34,146 --> 00:47:35,474
here I'm going to have
to check out this

1048
00:47:35,474 --> 00:47:40,221
theory for the mind, myself. I
want to read -- do you have any

1049
00:47:40,221 --> 00:47:43,265
research studies or
or a good article on

1050
00:47:43,265 --> 00:47:45,542
that that you could
recommend to us, Jane?

1051
00:47:45,697 --> 00:47:48,783
Dr. Garner: Yeah, for sure. 
I can't think of off the top of my head, but

1052
00:47:48,783 --> 00:47:50,954
I can certainly look
through my records

1053
00:47:50,954 --> 00:47:53,208
and send something, if
that would be helpful?

1054
00:47:53,278 --> 00:47:55,540
Leslie: Yeah, that would --
oh, absolutely. I would

1055
00:47:55,540 --> 00:47:57,272
really love to read
something on myself

1056
00:47:57,272 --> 00:48:00,222
and I'm sure others
would as well.

1057
00:48:00,630 --> 00:48:03,824
I think that has huge
implications, not

1058
00:48:03,824 --> 00:48:05,672
only for our wonderful 
group of

1059
00:48:05,672 --> 00:48:09,023
correctional librarians
here, but just

1060
00:48:09,023 --> 00:48:11,832
the correctional
field in general, for sure.

1061
00:48:12,046 --> 00:48:13,864
Dr. Garner: Yeah so it's
just sort of an argument

1062
00:48:13,864 --> 00:48:15,070
that could be quite
successful.

1063
00:48:15,094 --> 00:48:15,867
Leslie: Yeah.

1064
00:48:15,867 --> 00:48:19,913
Your manager could say, "Yeah, this
this is heavily

1065
00:48:19,913 --> 00:48:22,012
researched. This is
an agreement between

1066
00:48:22,012 --> 00:48:23,464
people who know what they're
talking about. That

1067
00:48:23,464 --> 00:48:26,638
this is important and
you can facilitate

1068
00:48:26,638 --> 00:48:28,325
this through your
library.

1069
00:48:28,794 --> 00:48:32,424
Leslie: Absolutely. So, I just want to give
one more opportunity

1070
00:48:32,424 --> 00:48:36,100
for questions for
Jane here. She's a

1071
00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:38,910
wealth of information
about her research

1072
00:48:38,910 --> 00:48:41,068
that she has done and
gone out there and

1073
00:48:41,068 --> 00:48:44,332
interviewed people
about this particular

1074
00:48:44,332 --> 00:48:47,821
issue. So, if we don't
happen to have any

1075
00:48:47,821 --> 00:48:49,765
more questions I'm
going to turn it back

1076
00:48:49,765 --> 00:48:52,902
over to my wonderful
colleague, Donna.

1077
00:48:53,993 --> 00:48:57,841
Leslie: Oh, we do have 
one more. Thank you.

1078
00:48:58,016 --> 00:49:01,332
Did you explore
internet access in

1079
00:49:01,332 --> 00:49:04,651
prisons, such as was
it being limited

1080
00:49:04,651 --> 00:49:06,971
only for legal 
research, re-entry

1081
00:49:06,971 --> 00:49:09,183
resources, job search
or was there

1082
00:49:09,183 --> 00:49:11,955
wide open Internet
access? Because, that's

1083
00:49:11,955 --> 00:49:15,026
up for discussion all
the time over here in the states.

1084
00:49:15,770 --> 00:49:16,854
Dr. Garner: Yeah,
it's interesting in

1085
00:49:16,854 --> 00:49:20,561
that our prisons have
no access to the

1086
00:49:20,561 --> 00:49:23,414
Internet. And, that's
it. There is nothing.

1087
00:49:23,715 --> 00:49:24,167
Leslie: Wow.

1088
00:49:24,167 --> 00:49:26,876
Dr. Garner: The only exception
to that is that

1089
00:49:26,876 --> 00:49:28,752
one prison that I was
talking about, had

1090
00:49:28,752 --> 00:49:31,045
the good library and
the librarian. Those

1091
00:49:31,045 --> 00:49:33,406
prisoners are allowed
access to five

1092
00:49:33,406 --> 00:49:35,947
email addresses in
the same way that

1093
00:49:35,947 --> 00:49:37,390
they might have
access to particular

1094
00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:39,962
phone numbers. And,
that they're allowed

1095
00:49:39,962 --> 00:49:42,261
to send an email and
receive an email

1096
00:49:42,261 --> 00:49:45,086
from those five email
addresses and all

1097
00:49:45,086 --> 00:49:47,551
the traffic is monitored
by security.

1098
00:49:47,789 --> 00:49:50,125
But, that's the only
exception there is no

1099
00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:52,828
access to
Internet at all, which has huge

1100
00:49:52,828 --> 00:49:55,121
implications for
connection back to the

1101
00:49:55,121 --> 00:49:57,470
world and online
education. All

1102
00:49:57,658 --> 00:50:00,084
sorts of things that just
unavailable to them

1103
00:50:00,084 --> 00:50:01,259
because of that
restriction.

1104
00:50:01,822 --> 00:50:04,542
Leslie: Yeah, and then the library becomes,
like a lifeline, doesn't it?

1105
00:50:04,931 --> 00:50:05,809
Dr. Garner: Absolutely.

1106
00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:09,675
Leslie: And so, here we have --
thanks, Danny.

1107
00:50:09,675 --> 00:50:12,666
We've got a great question 
coming in here. So, do

1108
00:50:12,666 --> 00:50:16,008
Australian prisons offer any
programming such as speaker's,

1109
00:50:16,008 --> 00:50:20,037
crafts, education, etc?
What kind of programming?

1110
00:50:20,607 --> 00:50:22,669
Dr. Garner: Yeah, they do 
have a very limited

1111
00:50:22,669 --> 00:50:25,161
education program and 
they're not ran by the prisons,

1112
00:50:25,161 --> 00:50:29,533
they're outsourced to 
an educational

1113
00:50:29,533 --> 00:50:34,112
organization and they
come and they bring

1114
00:50:34,112 --> 00:50:35,637
their teachers in
and they'll deliver

1115
00:50:35,637 --> 00:50:38,245
classes and
they'll leave. So, it's

1116
00:50:38,245 --> 00:50:41,029
very erratic
and not a very

1117
00:50:41,029 --> 00:50:43,640
solid process as
teachers tend to come

1118
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,984
and go there's local
consistency between

1119
00:50:45,984 --> 00:50:48,385
the offerings. The
offering is limited.

1120
00:50:48,385 --> 00:50:50,906
There's basic 
literacy and unity

1121
00:50:50,983 --> 00:50:53,726
training, which is
apparently pretty

1122
00:50:53,726 --> 00:50:55,646
ineffectual according
to the prisoners.

1123
00:50:56,027 --> 00:50:58,312
And then, there are
also some vocational

1124
00:50:58,312 --> 00:51:00,519
training. So, 
they are taught some

1125
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:04,542
capacity to do something
such as they have

1126
00:51:04,597 --> 00:51:10,730
to drive a bulldozer
or being

1127
00:51:10,746 --> 00:51:12,697
industrial cleaning
was another one

1128
00:51:13,017 --> 00:51:15,684
that they often do.
Really basic stuff.

1129
00:51:15,684 --> 00:51:18,178
Some other prisons
have a particular

1130
00:51:18,178 --> 00:51:21,250
focus. Some examples
are the minimum

1131
00:51:21,250 --> 00:51:23,856
security prisons are, as
I said, prison farms.

1132
00:51:24,238 --> 00:51:26,903
So, they might get
some instruction on

1133
00:51:26,903 --> 00:51:30,152
agricultural farming
techniques or

1134
00:51:30,152 --> 00:51:31,918
something like that
so something they

1135
00:51:31,918 --> 00:51:34,698
try and match with
the flavor of the

1136
00:51:34,698 --> 00:51:37,608
prison. But, really,
it's very limited and

1137
00:51:37,633 --> 00:51:41,788
there's no access
to [inaudible] to it or

1138
00:51:41,788 --> 00:51:45,028
university training
at all. It's all very

1139
00:51:45,028 --> 00:51:49,381
much certificate basic
entry-level training.

1140
00:51:50,210 --> 00:51:52,058
Leslie: Okay. Well, thank
you for sharing

1141
00:51:52,058 --> 00:51:53,991
that information with
us and thank you

1142
00:51:53,991 --> 00:51:57,849
everyone for this
robust Q&A session.

1143
00:51:58,086 --> 00:52:01,587
And so, Donna, I'm going to
turn it back over to you.

1144
00:52:04,414 --> 00:52:11,008
Donna: Okay. Thanks, Leslie.
Jane, as you return

1145
00:52:11,008 --> 00:52:17,092
back to the the main
screen, I do want to

1146
00:52:17,092 --> 00:52:22,417
just ask you one more
question and that

1147
00:52:22,439 --> 00:52:26,171
is what is next on
the horizon for you

1148
00:52:26,171 --> 00:52:27,884
in terms of research.

1149
00:52:29,415 --> 00:52:35,430
Dr. Garner: And, I am currently 
trying [inaudible my research on two

1150
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:37,990
different areas, really.
The first one, I'm

1151
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:39,875
looking at our libraries
contribute to

1152
00:52:39,875 --> 00:52:41,976
social capital
within communities,

1153
00:52:41,976 --> 00:52:45,622
particularly,
restricted and closed

1154
00:52:45,622 --> 00:52:48,882
communities and then
the emphasis of area

1155
00:52:48,882 --> 00:52:52,854
of interest is the
trying to bring about

1156
00:52:52,854 --> 00:52:54,758
some change in terms
of delivering

1157
00:52:54,758 --> 00:52:57,656
education to prisoners.
So, trying to

1158
00:52:57,656 --> 00:53:00,384
build some bridges
through to online

1159
00:53:00,384 --> 00:53:03,924
study in an offline
manner. So, perhaps

1160
00:53:03,924 --> 00:53:06,663
providing what's
normally delivered

1161
00:53:06,663 --> 00:53:09,128
online trying to
find some ways of

1162
00:53:09,128 --> 00:53:10,703
bringing that into
the prison without

1163
00:53:10,703 --> 00:53:13,903
internet access. Maybe,
in terms of closed

1164
00:53:13,903 --> 00:53:16,621
intranet or through
some tablet system,

1165
00:53:16,621 --> 00:53:19,124
perhaps, where 
that information is

1166
00:53:19,124 --> 00:53:22,277
pre-loaded onto a
learning tool. So,

1167
00:53:22,277 --> 00:53:23,637
that's sort of that's
what I'm thinking

1168
00:53:23,637 --> 00:53:25,009
at the moment.

1169
00:53:26,264 --> 00:53:30,954
Donna: Very interesting. We'll definitely have to
follow you. And so, on

1170
00:53:30,954 --> 00:53:33,135
that last slide
you had, you had your

1171
00:53:33,135 --> 00:53:36,275
contact information. 
So, hopefully

1172
00:53:36,275 --> 00:53:39,451
everyone received
that, but I can also

1173
00:53:39,451 --> 00:53:45,114
share that in our
follow-up email where

1174
00:53:45,114 --> 00:53:48,090
the resources that
you said that you'd

1175
00:53:48,090 --> 00:53:52,484
send, I'll include your contact
information as well in that email so

1176
00:53:52,484 --> 00:53:56,721
everyone can stay
apprised of your

1177
00:53:56,721 --> 00:53:58,757
ongoing research.

1178
00:53:58,921 --> 00:54:00,264
Dr. Garner: Sure. 
That'd be fine.

1179
00:54:00,538 --> 00:54:04,963
Donna: Okay. 
Great. So, to all of you attending

1180
00:54:04,963 --> 00:54:09,736
today, we absolutely look forward to
hearing how you will

1181
00:54:09,736 --> 00:54:11,788
apply what you have
learned today to

1182
00:54:11,788 --> 00:54:13,772
your own professional
practice.

1183
00:54:14,218 --> 00:54:16,183
Please share your
feedback

1184
00:54:16,183 --> 00:54:20,652
and your triumphs with us
by visiting the DDLC

1185
00:54:20,652 --> 00:54:34,776
project page at
www.nicic.gov/data-driven-librarianship-corrections-webinar-series.

1186
00:54:36,398 --> 00:54:38,793
Our next
session in the DDLC

1187
00:54:38,793 --> 00:54:41,968
webinar series
will be at 11 a.m. on

1188
00:54:41,968 --> 00:54:45,846
August 23rd where
Kristin, excuse me,

1189
00:54:46,046 --> 00:54:52,009
where Kirsten Kinsley
from University of

1190
00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:54,678
Florida will discuss
her research

1191
00:54:54,678 --> 00:54:58,060
demonstrating how
frequency and duration

1192
00:54:58,060 --> 00:55:00,847
of library usage correlates with

1193
00:55:00,847 --> 00:55:03,496
positive outcomes for
patrons.

1194
00:55:04,386 --> 00:55:07,483
This will be a groundbreaking
session filled with

1195
00:55:07,483 --> 00:55:09,838
tips on how you can
conduct similar

1196
00:55:09,838 --> 00:55:13,076
research in your own
facility. So, please

1197
00:55:13,076 --> 00:55:16,019
be sure to register.
The link for that

1198
00:55:16,019 --> 00:55:20,636
training will be going
up we anticipate

1199
00:55:20,636 --> 00:55:23,332
this Friday. So, please,
look out for it on

1200
00:55:23,332 --> 00:55:27,114
our website. 
Thank you again for

1201
00:55:27,114 --> 00:55:29,582
attending and we look
forward to seeing

1202
00:55:29,582 --> 00:55:32,373
you again next month.