Comments on: We Have a Problem

By: Jeff Crippen

Jeff Crippen — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:22:53 +0000

Oops, I meant Mark, not Leslie. Still brewing the morning coffee.

By: Jeff Crippen

Jeff Crippen — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:20:27 +0000

Leslie, you said – “We seem to rush toward debates over the Mosaic administration, the extent of acceptable activities on the Lord’s Day, the most faithful preaching method, and how much the prophets knew when they spoke at the direction of the Spirit. All interesting and useful questions, certainly. But how many hours of stimulating, edifying, smoke-filled, stout-drenched conversations on back porches among confessional presbyterians – for which we are well known, or ridiculed as the case may be – are spent lamenting the stories of the church’s women and girls? Perhaps my experience is the exception, but I haven’t had many.”

I have been battling this very thing in our own fellowship of churches – Reformed Baptists. General Assemblies pick the kinds of topics you list here and deliver all kinds of lectures on them. Pastors debate this detail and that nuance of theology and what some historic Baptist figure intended. Right now controversy is raging on what the small phrase “without passions” means in the Reformed confessions. Myself and our elders at our church are, well, disgusted with this. Christ is more concerned with mercy. His eye is on the widow and orphan and oppressed. He rebuked the Ephesian church (Revelation 2) for losing its first love, though diligently dealing with false teaching. Your words here are dead on target.

By: Andrea Rietman

Andrea Rietman — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:08:08 +0000

I cannot thank you enough for being a voice on this matter. Years ago, I attended a church that was founded because on the belief that no other churches in our town truly taught the truth of Scripture adequately. Ironically, year down the road, when a woman close to me was abused by her husband in every category one could think of and had removed herself from her home for safety reasons, she was encouraged during counseling session number ONES with the pastor, an elder, and his wife to go back. (And by the way, the first counseling session was joint, when they knew she was being abused.). A really bad situation became worse when the elders were questioned by a few people (including myself) on the ridiculousness of their counsel before God and this woman. The elders maintained their position: “We have done nothing wrong.” When I offered materials and a collection of Scripture I had gathered on the issue, the pastor said, “I’m sorry, I don’t have time to read your papers.” When word began to get out that they sent the abused woman back home after counseling the firs session, others began to have reactions of shock, so in order to save face, the elder’s wife who had also been involved in the counseling began to tell people that the abused woman “had exaggerated.” I could go on and on with more sordid details related to the spiritual abuse of this woman and at least two others that suffered at the hands of grossly misapplied Scripture of these elders who were involved (and all the others supported them), but the point I want to make is that you are absolutely correct; there IS an elephant in the room and I’ve said many times that we can’t keep sweeping him under the church rug forever. God is using you, a man (and I believe it is key that this issue is exposed by true MEN of faith in order for even just some of the stiff-necked men (and women, sadly) to finally listen). Thank you for being a voice for truth and righteousness. May God bless you!

By: Virginia Knowles

Virginia Knowles — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 02:14:34 +0000

Thank you for writing this, Mark. I write about domestic violence in Christian homes, especially in the home schooling movement. I have found from my research and personal observations that abused women are often told by church leaders to stay, submit, and be sweet. Here is one of my articles which addresses that: http://watchtheshepherd.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-bad-boy-and-angel.html

By: Shane Anderson

Shane Anderson — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:07:08 +0000

Well–it is certainly timely and, so far, a very helpful and needed biblical exploration. Thank you for these articles.

By: Mark A. Garcia

Mark A. Garcia — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 +0000

Thank you, sir, and sincerely. You haven’t said otherwise, of course, but just to state explicitly what the posts already indicate, I’m writing in general terms about a general topic of longstanding concern to the Church, and not with a view to any particular situation either in my own experience or anyone else’s. In fact, I write with an eye toward what others have experienced and expressed by way of concern rather than any specific scenario. Predictably, observations will apply to concrete questions or situations in a way that varies from reader to reader, but I hope that this general pastoral-theological and educational mode is a more widely helpful mode for writing about this. Thank you again.

By: Shane Anderson

Shane Anderson — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:25:44 +0000

I read this article and the others following, with my heart saying over and over “Amen!” Only to find that many also saying “Amen!” in the comments have in the last week spend much energy in a public exposing what they believe to be a systematic assault on our sisters by many in our presbytery. . . Wow. So I’m one of these dangerous, uncaring men who unknowing have fostered abuse? Even though I have spent great energy, in my own callings, fighting abuse and other kinds of denigration (of women and children) for many years. . . And my pastor, caring, wise, and infinitely willing to be offended rather than offend is spoken of as a monster…

My mind can hardly process where we now are in our little church and presbytery. How people’s harsh judgements of us are now being spread throughout the world over. How little they know of our constant labors in the exact matters over which they are expressing so much concern!

How are men who aren’t patriarchalists or feminists, just Christians wanting to express the grace of Christ, supposed to answer public accusations without being accused of farther oppressing victims?

By: Valerie Hobbs

Valerie Hobbs — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:09:06 +0000

Sorry, Carmen, for my late reply. I haven’t published the paper yet. I have gotten sidetracked a bit with another project. But I will send you a copy. if I don’t, please contact me at v.hobbs@sheffield.ac.uk. This is actually a different project to the one advertised on the Crying for Justice site.

By: Bobbie Van Til

Bobbie Van Til — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 22:16:24 +0000

Sadly, the problem worsens when elders believe that only they are called to counsel victims, even when they are ignorant of the tactics of an abuser and are either too proud or too aloof to become educated about abuse. My best friend, who was abused for nearly 40 years by her husband who was an elder in a Reformed church, was told that Christian counseling was a sin, and that the “marriage problem” needed to be handled by the elders. Thank you, Mr. Garcia for posting your article. I pray that church leaders in your denomination and others will both recognize that the evil of abuse indeed exists in the church, and realize that often times they enable and encourage it.

By: Mark A. Garcia

Mark A. Garcia — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 14:19:38 +0000

Yes, certainly, and thank you. Now, as one ordinarily incapable of such simple technological tweaks, let me give it a try and see what happens…