Comments on: Freemium Gaming Economics, Personal Fiscal Discipline, and Why Developers Should Not Be Demonized http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/ The PlayStation Home Magazine Fri, 13 Feb 2015 21:20:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.2 By: anamri http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280559 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:34:20 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280559 Personally, I find the prices of some things to be justified, but others outrageous. For example, there are a few $50 bundles, that I think are excessive. I have quickly learned my lesson, that’s for sure.

I want to give the product a chance, purchase it, and often do not find it on the same level as more fully developed games outside of the Home universe.

While I have the right to keep my money in my pocket the next time I am enticed, I also have the right to express my displeasure at the inflated price tag that is attached -- Whether or not I am as elegant a writer as Norse.

I think part of the problem is market saturation. It seems every update increases the choices of where and how to spend our money. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great that we have such a wide variety of content available every week!

I feel that is one thing that your model does not consider. When faced with a decision, who among us will not choose the product that leaves a little more in our wallet? That is where developers are failing. We should be seeing more competitive pricing with all of the content being released.

Also, if the item needs updating or is unsatisfactory, the point of purchase should not be the last we hear from the vendor about said purchase.

I have to say I do agree that the quality has increased as well. I’m not saying I think all developers are over-charging, but I do think it is becoming a more commonplace practice.

I do love that developers are becoming more prevalent among the community! It’s great to know that you will be heard -- and answered. It creates faith in your customer base. I hope more developers take note from companies like nDreams and Digital Leisure, in that aspect.

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By: Tim (LKWD_Tim) http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280555 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:40:02 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280555 Fantastic read! Thank you, Jason, thank you <3

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By: wweMcMahon316 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280533 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:30:48 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280533 Not sure if I feel educated or mentally violated with economics crash course. However, it was very informative and I do feel all warm n gooey inside knowing I gave at the office,and the beach,and the casino,lol and the list grows daily. Would I do it again, yep and probally spend more :| (trying to be responcible)

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By: deuce_for2 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280512 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 21:59:14 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280512 If there is so much money in this, then how come the new developers are getting smaller and smaller? EA, Lucas Arts and Disney have left. In their place we have JAM Games (2 people), Juggernaut (2 people), Game Mechanics (2 people) and Atom Republic (1 person). Greed is the wrong word.

I did a comparison of items sold in 2010 and now -prices for the same items are basically the same. The one notable difference is that European and Japanese developers are charging more, but that can be explained away by currency differences.

Apartments are different now in that back in the day, $4.99 got you a beautiful box. Now for $9.99 you get an apartment, a game and a companion. The value per dollar level is much higher now. I remember adding a refrigerator door and microwave door to a plain apartment and getting rave reviews for months.

There will always be someone who is unhappy. I don’t know if you all noticed but most people who complain about prices eventually admit they are not doing well financially right now. So let them rain and we all can continue to be the parade.

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By: MsLiZa http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280502 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 12:51:27 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280502 Well, I was called a shill for making the general statement that businesses have the right to charge for their products. Talk about disconnect from reality.

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By: KrazyFace http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280496 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:09:38 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280496 I think the problem is most people still see businesses as nothing more than profit makers. I was talking with a customer casually about personal Christmas budgets the other day and when I said this year would be hard for me he just scoffed and said “Ha! And with ALL that money I give you!?”. I wasn’t insulted because he just obviously can’t see that I have two rents, four phone lines, two electricity bills, insurance bills coming out my ears etc etc. All he sees is the money he gives me disappearing somewhere apparently into my pocket.

When you own a business people automatically assume you’re living the high life, when really it’s a constant financial tightrope you’re walking.

It does frustrate me to read the childish, banal, ignorant posts (like the parody above) that are strewn across the Sony forums day in day out but it’s simply a case of these people not having the capacity to understand the fundamentals of what a business goes through in order to keep itself afloat.

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By: NorseGamer http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280495 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:50:23 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280495 I read with great interest your points on the Xi Continuum freemium discussion, and you are (quite literally) right on the money, Liza.

Here’s the thing, though: there is no possible way that your opponents can agree with you, because the fear is that if they do so, they must then accept the business realities of how things actually are, rather than how they wish them to be. And how do you save face after something like that?

There is a disturbing trend from some on that forum to ignore reality, demand things function a certain way, and decry any prompts for critical thinking and personal fiscal responsibility. The entitlement attitude is astonishing, and I’ve never quite seen it this bad before. Most of the people there are pretty awesome, but there’s a group that’s getting quite shrill.

This doesn’t mean Sony is perfect, or that every business decision they’ve made was necessarily great (far from it, in some cases). Nor am I at all opposed to the consumer leveraging their voice and their wallets to try to make a difference. But they perhaps do not realize that they could make a far more *effective* argument if they actually first understood why things are the way they are, and worked from that baseline.

The forum would also do well to realize that it is a shockingly small microcosm of the overall user base, and that actual consumer trends, as indicated by SCEA’s monthly sales lists, are often quite separate from what that particular gaggle thinks is best for Home. Doesn’t mean the feedback isn’t useful, and that it shouldn’t be given — but it’s very easy to be forum-centric with our thinking, and that’s a dangerous trap to fall into.

I learned, quite some time ago, that my goal with that forum is not to convince the people opposed to my point of view. That’s impossible. Trying to do so only leads to a classic Internet Argument(tm), and those inevitably end in stalemate. The forum will continue as it has, reinforcing its own beliefs, convincing itself that it’s unassailably correct. And hey, if that adds to the fun of the Home community experience for them, there’s nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of good people there, and some fun discussions take place, but like any community it will have its rabble-rousers, muckrakers, specious popularity queens, et cetera. Fortunately, they appear to be in the minority. Even still, the forum is a useful tool for other purposes, which is why I periodically dive into a discussion, even knowing what the outcome will probably be.

You brought up a lot of great points on the forum, Liza, and though some chose not to see them, they were most certainly not overlooked.

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By: MsLiZa http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280494 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:11:42 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280494 I also remember reading the bulk (or entirety?) of this article that you posted in a different Forum thread a couple days ago. If I had read more closely, I could have responded with actual numbers.

Not that it would have mattered. ;)

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By: Gary160974 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280492 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 05:06:25 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280492 Problem is a lot of these I want stuff for free circles forget without Home being a business there is no new content free or paid for. The trick is, if you dont like it dont buy it or use it, if enough people dont buy it or use it the developers wont do it again, good example is Mercia, Lockwood at a Q&A the other night have gone on record saying that it wasnt as successful as they wanted, so thats it for Mercia, Its going to stay as it is until its switched off. On the other hand if someone likes something dont jam it down someone who doesnt like its throat. I like Mercia as I can along side a gang of friends go hacking and slashing, but I know its flawed and has been since release, so why would I go singing from the rooftops about it, when all it does is make my integrity just as questionable as if I say its rubbish without trying it first. Anyone thats ever sold anything would love someone saying ill buy your unique product risking that it maybe flawed, knowing full well if i wasnt a member of this community your product isnt really unique and actually behind the times outside this community. A sales person dream come true. But we buy it, why , because we all like Home. But dont let the community decide what you have to buy, as per article let your budget and what you like decide.

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By: MsLiZa http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280491 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 04:23:04 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280491 I also tried to explain the huge philosophical difference between squabbling over price versus refusing to accept a pay-to-play model at all.

The price matters little in circles where the prevailing attitude is that the content should just be available for free.

All fell on deaf ears, naturally.

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By: MsLiZa http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280490 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 04:17:46 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280490 It’s funny, Norse, that just 5 minutes ago I responded to a poster on the Forum citing the similarity between Facebook, Home and their respective 3rd party developers. Then I came here and read your article.

He used Facebook as an example of a thriving company that makes billions while giving away all their content for free. Forgetting conveniently about premium content and 3rd party developers, of course. Oops.

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By: Dr_Do-Little http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280483 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 21:00:34 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280483 But you must admit. There is much more modern and elegant way to steal money ;)

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By: Dr_Do-Little http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280482 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 20:59:10 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280482 Have to say, funny has hell. Quite a good laugh with my morning coffee;.

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By: NorseGamer http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280481 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:47:42 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280481 I actually banged my knee on the table from laughing so hard when I read that.

“I GAV U MY MUNY SONY AND U STOLE IT”

LOL. LOL. Genuine LOL.

Easily one of the funniest things I’ve read in quite a while — and eerily accurate, too.

Thanks for that. :D

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By: KrazyFace http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280480 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:33:05 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280480 Haha! Well, when you’re submerged in bad grammar/spelling in Home most days of the week it becomes second nature after a while! It’s like when the Proclaimers come on the radio, no matter how much you try to ignore it, it still sticks in your head! : P

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By: Terra_Cide http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280475 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 15:43:36 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280475 I gotta know: was that as hard to write as it was to read? :)

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By: KrazyFace http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280467 Sat, 15 Dec 2012 08:36:46 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280467 Da fing is tho dat I bot a tv yea but it duz noffink! Sony R muny graberz and day r greedee 2 coz wen I ast 4 my muny bk day sed day wer gonna keep it yea witch is so unfair I GAV U MY MUNY SONY AND U STOLE IT so I am dooin a kampane yea dat is anti Sony yea so if u want 2 join send me a frend inv and we can get lodza ppl 2getter in Home an bring dem doun frum da inside XXXD

SONY R BLOOD SUKERZ WE WILL RUIN HOME 4 DEM!!!!!1!!

Whay do I gotsta do sumz 2 post numberz r 4 ritin yea????

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By: Gary160974 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280460 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:57:55 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280460 People forget home is a business first community second , without the business there is zero community and zero home. But no other business i know of functions like home where the consumer advertises and basically sells what the seller is selling as much as the sellers does. how many fan sites and users of home big up new product and developers saying how great stuff is. how times have we seen this user has organised a developer q&a, this site has interviewed this developer etc etc.In real life, id recommend a good place to shop, a good product to buy or a good person to buy from. But it would be a bit over the top if I buy something and then start saying to the person that sold it, can you store manager be available for a question and answer session please or would they do an interview for my web site or blog. Particularly as most products are no better than normal. On the other hand if it was really that bad id never buy from there again. If it was something truly special then I could understand it, But generally its not. Thing is generally when you get extremes you get 2 opposite extremes. The people that demonize developers go over the top due to they keep hearing this is great, that is great by over the top community members that think developers can do no wrong. And then on the flip side the people think developers can do wrong see users demonizing developers so they counteract that by implying developers can do no wrong. neither are innocent and neither are guilty. We all read articles that wind us up and start us thinking of the other extreme, just with modern day media its easier to voice our thoughts. there will always be exceptions to this like trolls and trouble makers. Perhaps home is just a magnified over the top version of reality

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By: Burbie52 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280446 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:57:15 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280446 Once again you hit the nail on the head with this one. If you use the real world as a template, you will find that there are many community driven events out there, such as the Christmas party my parents went to last nite for seniors at the local senior center. They didn’t have to pay to have a nice evening with others like themselves, and yet they did. This is because taxes paid for it, so ultimately they contributed to the experience with money.
As I said before very few things in this life are truly free, we pay for them one way or another, so stop getting upset if Sony and the people who have hitched their wagon to this wonderful place try to actually improve it and earn a living doing so.
The funny thing is that in a sense though we don’t pay for Home directly we still pay for it. Internet, your PS3 and your electricity and television weren’t free after all. So why should the extra content you decide to pay for be free? Decide being the operative word there, after all no one is being forced to do this as you pointed out.
Nice article again Norse.

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By: Jersquall http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/12/freemium-gaming-economics-personal-fiscal-discipline-and-why-developers-should-not-be-demonized/#comment-280437 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 04:55:32 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=43152#comment-280437 It is hard to understand whats really going on at Sony considering we do not see that side but your read makes a lot of sense. Here is how I see it. Yes, some prices have gone up a bit in four years. Yes Home is still kicken tires. It’s still has had a great run even if it ended next week.

Such an undertaking to create Home with all these different partners and make it work! I wish more home users would just play the game instead of trying to set policy. This is Sony’s baby and it has worked since day one. pretty simple really.. Offer constructive feedback and go enjoy the product. That has been my intention.

Terrific read. Appreciated.

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