Comments on: Barroom Brawlers http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/ The PlayStation Home Magazine Fri, 13 Feb 2015 21:20:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.2 By: lee http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-83785 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:27:45 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-83785 Tell me more about the rope ! :P

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By: julie_love http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-80199 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:42:40 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-80199 Susan I think that most of us could find one or two of those traits in our own personality, but from what I’ve read people with NPD are often the last to recognize that they have the symptoms so you pass the test! :)

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By: julie_love http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-80198 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:40:53 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-80198 Keara I’d say there are 3 ways to deal with someone with NPD.

1. Ignore them and keep writing. I’m guessing that that is what most people do.
2. Engage them and try to change their behavior.
3. Withdraw and stop writing.

I think it’s unlikely that any of these tactics are likely to change the behavior so I think you should do whatever you’re more comfortable with. Some people are obviously more confrontational and combative and will engage, others are more passive.

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By: Aeternitas33 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-80064 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:31:31 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-80064 How do you cope? You report them to the mods. If you think the worst that can happen to you is that someone with NPD will confront you on the PS forums, then you’ve been pretty lucky and you don’t know the half of it.

Some of the worst personal attacks I’ve ever experienced happened while writing about the nuclear disaster which resulted from the earthquake and tsunami in Japan. There are a lot of vested interests which don’t want to have an honest discussion about the events which happened there, and the consequences for human life not only in Japan but all over the Earth. There is a tremendous amount of deliberate disinformation that is being propagated through mainstream media, and large numbers of people who are accepting this propaganda as reality. They didn’t appreciate having their bubbles burst with facts, and when it happened they suddenly snapped and started flooding my inbox with unbelievably vicious personal attacks and threats, partly because they felt that I was a threat to the online personas which they had created. Being publicly attacked on the PS forum is nothing in comparison.

How did I respond? I reported them to the mods and I continued to write.

You can never really predict when something like this is going to happen, because you can never know what element of Home has been internalized by some virtual user, and used as a projection for their unconscious beliefs and fantasies. So when you start to criticize that element in Home, they feel that you’re tugging at a thread in their personality matrix, and if you pull top hard who knows what might come unraveled?

To give another example, I also drew some unbelievably vicious personal attacks and threats while writing about women’s fashions of all things. Someone who is the worst sort of internet coward, and therefore the worst sort of internet bully, decided to launch a smear campaign against me in which they repeatedly and deliberately lied about me and my actions, and none of this occurred on the PS forums.

Again, how did I respond? By reporting them to the authorities and by continuing to write.

You’ve stated that you’ve no interest in the VIP area in the theater. Very well then. That leaves the issue of your personal concern as to how to respond to trolling on the PS forums. My answer, paradoxical as it may seem, is that you try to respond unemotionally, but with empathy. Try to identify the root issue and respond to that, rather than to the surface issues and emotions which are clouding it. You can never control how someone responds to you; you can only control how you respond to them. This is easy advice to give, hard to follow. If you were familiar with the history of the PS forums, you’d realize that there have been numerous occasions when the PS Home HCMs and Mods have failed in this task themselves.

(Editor’s note: This response has been edited to remove comments against the article’s author. Don’t like the author’s writing technique? Too bad. Write your own articles on the subject.)

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By: Terra_Cide http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-80037 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:31:18 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-80037 Yep, she’s right. Being Awesome™ isn’t the same as NPD. ;)

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By: keara22hi http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-80001 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:54:49 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-80001 Sue, it is NOT a NPD disorder when you really are fabulous! Definitely does not apply to you or any of my other friends.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79978 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:14:15 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79978 Well Keara I can safely tell you that not caring too much about what other people think of your views free’s you from most of the worries you express.IF they actually contribute something useful to the convo. consider it but don’t worry too much about overzealous whining.My dog whines alot too when he doesn’t get to eat the same things I do but he gets over it,with people they’ll either get over it,move on or continually be a thorn in your side.Whatever they decide to do it’s their choice and not something you can worry too much about.I generally try to not associate with people of that type,and if truth be told it’d be impossible for anyone easily offended by differing views to be my friend for long as I have some pretty wildly differing views from the “norm” about most topics.Just be true to who you are Granny,the rest will work itself out eventually.

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By: Susan http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79966 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:32:43 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79966 Great Article Keara, this WAS something that was needed to be shared with others. @Julie- I can see traits of me in that list..hmmm

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By: keara22hi http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79963 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:18:23 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79963 I think you have answered my first question, julielove! That is exactly what is happening. Perhaps the NPOs are frustrated in real life because they cannot achieve their goals so they come into Home…. Especially the part about “Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others”. There are a few people who have the attitude, “if you don’t agree totally with my position, you are my enemy and I will attack you. Be my sycophant or SUFFER!”

Norse warned me not to run this article and he kept it on the shelf for weeks until he got sick of me begging. But I think this is an important issue in Home, especially in the Forum. The second question remains: how to cope with someone who acts that way?

I cannot condemn someone who “Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, etc…” because if they need that, a virtual reality is the perfect place to scratch that itch. Same with “wants ‘the best’ of everything'”. It’s the “Reacts to criticism with anger…” “Is easily hurt and rejected” and “Lacks empathy…” issues that cause the hurt feelings in those who come into contact with them.

What can you do if you want to post something in the Forum or write an article for HSM and you draw an attack by a NPO? Norse tells us to “take the high road” and ignore them but sometimes the urge to try to reason with them becomes almost overwhelming. Do you quit writing? Or just keep trying to ameliorate the situation? Or write nothing but ‘fluff’ pieces and threads that will anger no one?

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By: julie_love http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79908 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:24:48 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79908 Great article as always Keara. One thing I didn’t see noted was something I’ve observed both in Home and in the forums. I think that Home attracts a large number of people with narcissistic personality disorders and that is reflected in the way people argue in the forums.

I’ve observed narcissistic traits both in the wildly ranting trolls and the yes men that tend to polarize a lot of the discussions.

Perhaps the reason that so many narcissists are attracted to Home is because it is virtual and anonymous and one is free to create any persona desired.

Here are some of the symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Sound like anyone you’ve met in Home or the forums recently?

Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
May take advantage of others to reach his or her own goal
Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Easily becomes jealous
Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others
Obsessed with oneself
Mainly pursues selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Is easily hurt and rejected
Sets unreal goals
Wants “the best” of everything
Appears as tough-minded or unemotional

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79506 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:04:53 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79506 I didn’t think it necessary to differentiate which part of the 14yr old analogy that happens all the time but for those who haven’t been to a public school in awhile the 14 yr olds only hump the single womens legs(they have ethical standards after all).But more semi-seriously,it’s the talking back to elder people that gets done almost routinely,as most young people at least those around here,feel any fool can live to old age.

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By: Terra_Cide http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79435 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:07:07 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79435 Really? You have 14-year-olds in your area who hump a married woman’s leg in public?

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By: Aeternitas33 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79363 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:16:35 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79363 I tend to agree with Olivia, although I don’t believe the phenomena is necessarily working on a conscious level. I think technology has the effect of dehumanizing people, so that it is easier to be rude to someone you don’t know when you are speaking to them over the phone, and easier to be even ruder still if you are communicating solely by written text.

In the case which HIW mentions, since everyone involved knew each other, I feel that the forums were essentially an extension of real-world communication, and therefore can’t be directly compared to forums in which the vast majority of people don’t know each other, and where all sorts of deception can take place. One of my current gadflies is constantly buzzing about trying to get me to respond to them by making indirect attacks, and also has a tendency to use multiple forum accounts (while criticizing those who do this on their main account lol). I simply ignore this person and all of their alt accounts.

As HIW says, it does take a toll on you, does cause you to question yourself, and so you have to choose your battles wisely.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79350 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:37:49 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79350 I think the ski-mask is more to escape detection of identity than because of any embarrassment the robber feels.I guess they have better behaved 14yr olds where your at because that happens all the time around here in any public school(probably outside of school as well).Maybe it’s just me but I’d take a cut-in at a check-out lane more seriously than on the road,could be all sorts of emergencies for the road incident but hardly any that justify a faster purchase,IMO.I just don’t think any of us can safely guess as to what anyone’s motives are for saying unpleasant things to other people on the internet.Who knows maybe the 2 people know each other and are engaging in what passes for them as fore-play?Who can tell.

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By: Olivia_Allin http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79342 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:11:03 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79342 A 14 year old boy is less likely to insult a 33 year old man if face to face with them… for the most part. the same 14 year old boy is less likely to hump a married woman’s leg. I am apt to vent my thoughts when a dufus cuts me off in traffic, less likely if they do it in the mall. Yes there are jerks that don’t care how they act no matter where they are. Sadly there are some people that turn into jerks because they feel they can get away with it through anonymity. One drastic example, and I admit drastic.. a robber wearing a ski mask… I don’t think anyone here totally believes that anonymity doesn’t play a factor.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79320 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:41:08 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79320 In my experience people have an easy time saying unpleasant things to people they don’t know,in real life or on the Internet.Of course I’d hesitate to characterize all people as being the same way but normally the silver-tongues don’t come out til’ somebody wants something from somebody.

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By: Olivia_Allin http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79290 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:42:10 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79290 The shield of anonymity is like the Emperors New Clothes. Many may think that just because Home doesn’t mean much to them that what they do has no consequences. What anyone does in any world, real or virtual, has consequences. But the allure of shedding your morals and walking on the dark side is to temping for the weak. Holding on to your morals even when no one is watching is the measure of a honorable person.

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By: NorseGamer http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79286 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:37:14 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79286 This is one of the reasons why HSM discussions are closely monitored. By showing minimal tolerance for trolling and personal attacks, it keeps conversations from degenerating into flamewars and sends a clear message: if you want to participate in the discussion, have the maturity level required to maintain an intelligent dialogue, or you *will* find yourself banned. All it takes is a handful of trolls to keep others from wanting to contribute anything — and even drive people away — so if it takes a banhammer to grow audience numbers and participation, then that’s a no-brainer.

Doesn’t mean everyone has to agree — we foster debate and spirited discussion at HSM, because we cover social issues — but it means that here, at least, things will be civil. And the end result is that our audience knows that the discussions will be interesting (instead of painful) to read.

It is indeed interesting how the complaining on the Sony forum quiets down when an official voice steps in. To HIW’s point, sometimes it’s just a matter of feeling like you’re being heard. Even if the people are capslocked and incoherent and completely out of touch with reality, it’s amazing how a simple acknowledgement calms things down.

In this regard, I’d suggest that Sony could have an improved PR outreach presence on the forum. Yes, we know that they’re constantly monitoring it, but that’s not the same as responding, even with some preapproved banal verbiage. It might cut down on developer and consumer alike having to wade through so much bleating and moaning to find useful constructive criticism.

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By: CheekyGuy http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79274 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:18:31 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79274 There are people that have their own opinions and then there are people that use their opinions as hard fact and it is a scary thought that there are people out there that use virtual worlds or use forums to vent pent up aggression or anger.

For me, the way to do that is play Call Of Duty or Tekken, you can release it a little more constructively than go and verbally attack somebody in the forums. (Hell, these games were probably created for a little pent up aggression.)

There must be something in that that the anonymity of being online can take away responsibility and accountability..

Again, great, thought provoking article Granny :)

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By: HearItWow http://www.hsmagazine.net/2012/01/barroom-brawlers/#comment-79197 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:58:05 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=18059#comment-79197 As I noted earlier, I’ve seen little difference in the way people behave online and the way they behave offline. Readers may have the impression that I’m prickly and stubborn. It’s true. You can ask my employers. They’ll roll their eyes when you mention my name.

Taking people out of their comfort zone is a real challenge, and one best handled delicately. Some people simply cannot accept a challenge to their beliefs or their opinions when it’s presented bluntly. They resent those that try to do this and consider those people threats. Most of the time, they resort to personal attacks to deflect a criticism that’s more than they can handle. Shifting the argument shifts them outside of the danger zone, especially if they can get the critic to respond in kind. Now they have the upper hand, because they can paint the critic as a cruel person and feel that they hold some sort of moral high ground, even though they initiated the attack.

I seldom respond to personal attacks unless something that is wildly untrue has been said. Often, I find that people who make those allegations are operating from some negative experience in their personal lives that causes them to be mistrustful of others. I’ve been called most of the names in the book. All I can do in that situation is point to what I’ve said in the past and ask people to judge for themselves. If someone can find some other motivation than I care about Home and the Home community, I do hope they’ll point it out to me, as it would likely be very enlightening.

As far as the rope debate goes, I won’t be writing about that anytime soon, as it was a personally draining thing to be a part of, and it took a heavy toll on me. My near silence on the forums, in Home and online in the wake of that was not coincidental. Sometimes one wonders what one is fighting for, and whether it’s worth the effort. Even those of us who strive to take the high road can get dragged down when the negativity rises.

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