Comments on: To TOS Or Not To TOS: That Is the Question

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:27:16 +0000

Heres 2 more that might interest you johneboy.Brushaber v Union Pacific(1915or16) and Peck v Lowe(1918).These are 2 of the other 5 or 6 I reffered to and Stanton is right after Brushaber and references Brushaber so these all compliment 1 another.Draw your own conclusions but I think you will see what I’m talking about.

By: johneboy1970

johneboy1970 — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:35:37 +0000

No no no, Susan, I never EVER confuse politics with food. When I said Pizza, I MEANT pizza. And you can choose the topping…just no pineapple, please.

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:20:13 +0000

Oh, you meant “P” as is in “Political Pizza?”..that I am full on needless to say.!

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:12:48 +0000

When I am on this site I am always in google

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 01:25:17 +0000

Only if it is from Godfathers Pizza…

By: johneboy1970

johneboy1970 — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:47:13 +0000

Yep…that’s right…I said the “P” word. Want a slice?

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:05:23 +0000

I love FOX..I watch O’Reily all the time..Love his take on things. Red eye..Awesomsauce.I actually watch Keith Oberman to and Rachell Maddow.Do I agree with everything? No. Do I find it informative? Yes.But your not playing fair..you said …PIZZA………………………………………………..

By: johneboy1970

johneboy1970 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:58:32 +0000

That’s quite all right, Susan…no apology ever needed in conversation.

And I do agree with you that any piece of news can be slanted to fit a particular paradigm – especially in the realm of politics. Case in point watch the same political news story on FOX, then on MSNBC; it’s obvious that both ‘news’ outlets will pepper the story, or its presentation, to make their political viewpoint on the matter seem right.

Just reading the comments section of a story about a dog who leapt off of the back of a boat and caught a 22 pound flounder, and you’re sure to find that the conversation quickly devolves into a Red vs Blue battle royal…when, of course the original story had nothing to do with that.

Also, in speaking with people who have very strong opinions about ‘conspiracy theories’ I have also noticed that many will scoff if you don’t believe them – much in the way that they are scoffed at when they speak about what they believe in.

Unfortunately, when passions become inflamed rational conversation goes out the door, down the block, finds a nice pizza place, and has a slice and a coke until it’s over.

By: Terra_Cide

Terra_Cide — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:31:06 +0000

If you really, truly want an edit feature, I urge you all to do the following:

1. USE A PROPER WEB BROWSER. Not IE, and most certainly *not* the one on the PS3.

2. TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO USE A PROPER WEB BROWSER. Especially not to use the one on the PS3.

3. CONTINUOUSLY URGE SONY TO PROVIDE A BETTER BROWSER ON THE PS3. Because quite frankly, the one they got now drives me mildly homicidal.

(Because trust me on this, you aren’t the only ones. There’s some capabilities on the backside of the site -- namely in the forum -- that would be really nice to have if we didn’t have to allow for the good number of people who read HSM from their PS3s.)

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:07:56 +0000

*most (could really use that edit feature,lol.)

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:07:01 +0000

Have fun johneboy,as you like legalese so much I’d also advise reading the other cases as well,sorry I’ve forgotten the exact names but they were all around the same time period and deal with different aspects of the tax.I agree with you about conspiracy theories,must start out with at least a grain of truth and to truely seperate fact from fiction it’s best to do your own research on any topic that interests you as many researchers commit the academic sin of adding their own slant to the facts.I’m not saying conspiracy theories are correct,in almost every case I can think of there are at least a few errors of fact,but it can be fun if you have a knack for history to look deeper into these things.I forget the exact quote but Oppenheimer got it right when he said the true scientist must be free to inquire into anything there is no place in science for dogma.

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:03:07 +0000

Your right johneboy. I was using the term “left” as a general term.Something I’m learning on here Iguess..lol..My opinion is that people can take any piece of news or whatnot and make it fit into their theory.I am a face value person.I have many friends who adopt a conspiracy mindset and that’s fine.It when they try to impose their beliefs upon you and make you feel small for not agreeing with them.that being said, I apologies for my incorrect assessment of what political wing is taking issue with what.

By: johneboy1970

johneboy1970 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 22:52:30 +0000

Oh, and thanks for passing the case name on to me, Cthulu. I do appriciate it -- it sould be an interesting read and would go nice with a merlot

By: johneboy1970

johneboy1970 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 22:50:14 +0000

@Susan: Which notion do you mean, Susan? IF you’re referring to the Income tax being Unconstitutional or outright illegal, then I’ve found that people who lean to the right (as Cthulu pointed out)politically tend to support that idea (If your curious,I tend to be more of a centrist and decide on political issues on a case by case basis).

I am very aware of Aaron Russo’s work, and truth be told, there’s a lot of merit in what he outlines in his films. As it has been some time since I viewed his work specific details may be sketchy in my memory, but I do recall that his research was quite sound.

Additionally, the 16th amendment was indeed never ratified properly – a simple fact if one checks the Congressional record of its passage (I have yet to read the case Cthulu kindly brought to my attention, but will be digging in soon).

And I have to agree with Cthulu: one cannot paint ‘conspiracy theories’ (I truly dislike that term, but use it for lack of a better one) with such a broad brush. Cthulu’s examples are right on the money and can be expanded into a much larger list of things both true and ludicrous. For myself, I’ve found that a great many things which people consider ‘conspiracy theories’ have a lot more truth to them than most would know about or even admit.

Therein lies the interesting part: digging into a subject to see what is actual fact and what is hyperbole and outright lies. You’d be surprised how many things once brushes off as a flight of fancy can actually be tracked down and attributed to its original (and oftentimes legitimate) source.

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:24:06 +0000

And as far as political leanings go most anti-income tax ppl I know of are on the far right.You know,the anti-big Government types that feel the tax is an intrusion into their constitutional right to enter into contracts.My own views are not so cut and dried as far as right or left go,they are a mix of each but certainly not in the center,usuallly.Most left leaning ppl I know of think the tax is necessary for the Government to function,they just don’t like the amount they pay.

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:00:01 +0000

Not all conspiracies are twisted truths.It’s pretty well known that some conspiracies were hidden truths.With a little research it should be quite easy to differentiate the quack theories(fake lunar landings) from truths(the fact that Britian knew 6 months in advance that pearl harbor was going to be attacked).It just takes a little time but it can be quite fun to delve further into these things,there is nothing quite like the fun of watching a “New World Order” believer rant for an hour,vivid imaginations I’ll grant them that,lol.

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 20:53:54 +0000

but booze is fun….

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 20:52:11 +0000

In my opinion only,most people who are on the left subscribe to that notion johneboy. Here is a perfect example.FreedomtoFacisim.com .These people have a tendency to believe in conspiracies and such.They also attempt to justify their arguments with twisted truths,same people who probably say we didn’t land on the moon or that in a few months China is going to EMP us and invade the US with N.Korea and Russsia…

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 20:51:48 +0000

*Stanton

By: cthulu93

cthulu93 — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 20:51:02 +0000

Well johneboy it’s a complicated wording but in Stanton v.s. Baltic mining company the court said that the new powers given the government by the 16th amendment were an indirect tax.Indirect taxes are far different than what we have now which is why the government calls the with-holding of income taxes “Voluntary Compliance”.The whole income tax debate involves some pretty complex wording that can be rather confusing for ppl.I was just reviewing the 5 or 6 pages of the Stanton decision a few min. ago and the legalese made my head spin.There were 5 or 6 cases tried around the same time as Stantom(1916-ish) that all basically agreed on this point,the income tax was never intended to be applied to individual citizens.As for the Government being a “fam” well I guess it was for awhile as the Bush and Clintons were in charge of it for quite awhile but if your comparing the Govt’ to a Home “fam” I’d say you were probably way off base as most Home “fam”‘s would never participate in some of the shady things our Government has.