Comments on: Follow Up: Video Game Limits Struck Down by Supreme Court in California Case http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/ The PlayStation Home Magazine Fri, 13 Feb 2015 21:20:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.2 By: johneboy1970 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25779 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:16:52 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25779 @ cthulu: Good points. I agree, any legislation that limits freedom of expression is not only a bad thing, but prone to abuse by the very government which passed it.

As you mentioned, there would have to be a commission set up to regulate the law – I find it interesting that California, which is essentially bankrupt, would even attempt to enlarge the size of its government when they are laying off civil workers on a huge scale, and dropping the pay of many who remain down to minimum wage.

Additionally, a certain amount of law enforcement would have to be allocated to investigating claims of illegal sales (and, perhaps, setting up ‘sting’ operations) of video games…when they could be out catching real criminals who pose a threat to the population at large. It just leaves me scratching me head.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25719 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:58:01 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25719 Well while my 1st comment awaits moderation I’d like to add that I wouldn’t be surprised if California had a rather long and expensive review process to look games over in mind when they set this up as well.Taking every opportunity to charge companies along every step of the process.True,it will be the citizens who will eventually pay the 1.1 million if California has to pay it but hopefully it will wake them up to what kind of government they have.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25718 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:38:24 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25718 *and

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25717 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:38:00 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25717 Not only was it vague in the violence ans sexual catergories but that last part about “…and lacks serious literary,artistic,political or scientific value.” made it possible for them to ban any game for pretty much any reason.And you can be quite sure that any game which happened to offer a viewpoint that the state found offensive for ANY reason or 1 that contradicted the official state position on any controversial topic would fall into one of those catergories in their view.This was old-fashioned censorship in new clothes,IMO.

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By: Aeternitas33 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25716 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 08:27:38 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25716 Well, I’m glad I could be of assistance. Although I believe we may have been mutually contributing to each other’s insomnia. :)

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By: johneboy1970 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25712 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 07:59:34 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25712 @ Aeternitas33: The suit itself was pursued by interests opposed to the law which had been enacted by the state of California. The law had already passed in the legislature and had been signed by the Governor. The suit was to determine the Constitutionality of the law as it stood. Thus there were no individual games cited in the original legislation, nor in the suit brought before the Court. Even though some games may have been mentioned in the lead up to the legislative vote, or by individual Justices during arguments, no particular game was singled out.

I agree that the part cited would fall under violence rather than sexuality, but considering that legal precedence is often fluid (meaning that precedence from an unrelated but circumstantially similar case is often used in other court cases) it wouldn’t be a stretch to assume that other ‘adult’ themes would fall under the purview of the legal definition of an ‘adult’ game.

And the language used in the original bill which the Court struck down was, indeed, intentionally nebulous. While LAW can be very specific, LEGISLATION is often written with possible future interpretation in mind.

An example would be the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which supposedly allowed for terrorists to be tried by a military commission as opposed to a court of law for any nefarious act they committed. But, as the law reads, anyone can be labeled as a terrorist (or “unlawful enemy combatant”) at the whim of the Executive branch with no more proof other than accusation, and be given no Constitutionally legal recourse in defending themselves legally. The Obama administration cited the act when they declared that detainees held in places like Guantanamo Bay not only had to rely on a military commission to have their day in court, but they could also be held indefinitely at the behest of the Executive branch…even if they are found not guilty by the military commission. These abuses of civil liberties are a direct result of the intentional vagueness of the legislation; I believe that the California law (which was also left open to a great deal of interpretation due to its language), among a great many other bills and acts, was left purposely vague in much the same fashion. From a legislative point of view, it’s much easier to have some legal maneuvering room that to have to re-write and pass a new law every few years to cover unforeseen circumstances. Unfortunately, this ‘slacking’ often leads to misuse and corruption of intent.

Great questions, Aeternitas. I’m not sure if you are contributing to my insomnia this evening or not (it’s almost 4 am as I write this), but I’m grateful for the brain exercise :>

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By: Aeternitas33 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25696 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 04:22:53 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25696 The games in question, which caused California to pursue the suit, did any of them involve sexuality, or were the reasons they were found to be offensive involve violence only?

The section you quoted referred to sexual assault, however that’s merely one tiny area of a vastly larger field of human behavior, and in my opinion properly belongs under violence rather than sexuality.

The issue I’m not understanding, is the use of the term “adult” when it seems as if the suit was exclusively concerned with violent video games. You’re saying this was done deliberately as part of a legal strategy?

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By: johneboy1970 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25686 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 02:38:24 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25686 @Aeternitas: To clarify, the term “adult’ as it related to the sale of video games is a tag applied by the suit (which was taken from the state legislation) presented to the Court, not by myself.

While the suit seemed to rely heavily on the ‘violent’ content of games, the actual definition of ‘adult games’, as defined by the California law, does indeed include graphic sexuality…although it does not explicitly state it.

If I may quote from the article:
“The legal definition of violent games, according to the suit, would be games, “in which the range of options available to a player includes killing, maiming, dismembering or sexually assaulting an image of a human being…in a way that is patently offensive… appeals to minors’ deviant or morbid interests…and lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.”

The last two sections would indeed cover sexual topics, and are intentionally broad – if the SOTUS would have allows such a law to remain uncontested the vagueness of the law would ensure that, from a legal standpoint, further embellishment and interpretation would be easily inserted by the state.

The wording of the last few bits are almost identical to the laws concerning pornography; this was done intentionally in order to use legal precedence from past cases involving pornography in future cases which would involve the sale of video games. Law itself is very much about precedent…and legislation is worded very specifically in order to apply precedent and interpretation where none exists.

Luckily, as the Court branded the legislation with a big, red stamp of “Unconstitutional” this will be something we don’t have to worry about. For now.

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By: Aeternitas33 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25659 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:06:24 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25659 I’m a bit confused here. You state that it was proposed to regulate “adult” video games, yet you then cite a definition for “violent” video games. Are you saying “adult” equals “violent?”

What about games with sexual content? I find it really amusing for example, that at my local Blockbuster, the only copies of Catherine to be found on the shelves are those with the “alternate” box cover. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with the regular box cover. Grand Theft Auto games however, I find to be offensive and I laugh at the notion that they are in any way “adult.”

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By: johneboy1970 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25655 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:29:38 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25655 I hope they win the counter-suit as well. Unfortunately, government at all levels tends to ignore such payouts when they are awarded; although the money to pay such suits off comes from tax-payer dollars, very few tax-payers hold their representative’s feet to the fire after their money is squandered by corrupt or mismanaged government.

I wonder if the industry wins the recovery suit, if we’ll see a commemorative Home T-shirt :>

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-25653 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:08:51 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-25653 I just read online that the video gaming industry now wants to be re-imbursed 1.1 million dollars for their legal fees from California for bringing this nonsense to court.Personally I hope they get that and more,it might help prevent similiar idiotic attempts like this in the future by governments.

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By: johneboy1970 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-20088 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:42:45 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-20088 @Cthulu: Personally, I do like the ESRB ratings system…but that’s because I DO have kids. I believe that these systems of self-regulation are important in that they show that a given industry can be responsible for itself when it chooses to (unlike many corporate entities), and that a smidgeon of education and information can be a better working model for oversight than government interference.

And, which I appreciate the civility of your reply, I must add that the call for such was not mine…but, perhaps, a good idea none the less.

@Kid: To clarify, the FCC has oversight over all broadcasts of a terrestrial nature. Even cable channels are subject to FCC regulation, although the regulations vary (sometimes drastically) from the rules concerning major network broadcasts.

Interesting thing is that the “majors” are still under the same rules they followed years ago even though there is no more open air broadcasting. I wonder if that will change soon?

@Filthcrow: Interesting point about the ‘skewering’ of the ESRB ratings. If you look back through the history of mainstream entertainment in the US, violence (even extreme violence) has always been somewhat acceptable, while sex had (until recent years) been something which wasn’t talked about.

Flicking through the TV dial 50 years ago one could turn on The Guns of Wil Sonnet (a western with gunfights galore) or I Love Lucy (a comedy where the husband and wife team slept in SEPARATE beds). Go to the movies and you could see gangsters gun each other down and cartoons which can be considered extremely violent, but even the mere mention of a ‘garter’ would bring a gasp of surprise to an adult audience.

This lopsided social norm also found its way into government: regulations stated that a kid could buy a comic (filed with violence) or pulp novel (do they even have those anymore?) but one has to be 18 to get Playboy.

There has always been a puritanical bent to our socital norms which seems to favor violence over sex; this has only lessened in the last 35 years or so (that being said, I personally find that mainstream media has become over-sexualized).

Historically speaking, the focus of this trodding down of sex and sexuality in our media has almost always come from religious fundamentalism…but I wonder if perhaps the complexities of sexuality are just that much harder for humans to digest than the inelegant simplicity of violence.

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By: FilthCrow http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-20077 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:58:30 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-20077 I think the ESRB ratings are useful, even though they are skewed (putting too much emphasis on silly things like exposed skin yet too lax on violence). However, using it to invoke a legal mandate is simply draconian.

I like to have a rating system (no matter how flawed) for my own guidance but I would never want my ultimate decision to be imposed on somebody else.

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By: Kid Fleetfoot http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-20070 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:30:33 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-20070 I agree with the Supreme Court ruling as I understand it. Retailers have a right to not sell a game for whatever reason they want. Parents can “censor” what games their children play (as best as they can).

Over the air radio and TV stations are subject to sanctions by the FCC but cable channels are not (or so I understand). This seems somewhat strange to me and perhaps that will be another wall to fall. We’ll see. Perhaps this is not relevant.

Obviously print media and internet sites can control as to what they allow.

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By: cthulu93 http://www.hsmagazine.net/2011/06/follow-up-video-game-limits-struck-down-by-supreme-court-in-california-case/#comment-20032 Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:12:34 +0000 http://www.hsmagazine.net/?p=10374#comment-20032 Honestly I feel the ESRB rating system is needless but then I don’t have children.The rating is something I don’t even look at when making a purchase but if I had children I might.As for the ruling,I think the U.S. would’ve been a vastly different place in which to live had this passed and not for the better.Anytime the government gets into the morals business things go bad and this would’ve allowed the states to set up their own regulations in EACH state.Think on that 50or51,depending on D.C.,different sets of rules for developers to follow with some sets probably thick as phone books.A 7to2 decision is pretty telling when you consider this court usually votes 5to4 on most issues,hope that gives any other states with similiar ideas something to think about before trying this again.Also would just like to point out the”it’s for the good of the children”excuse the state was invoking here,it’s an old standby.If the state were truely concerned about the welfare of children in this instance why was the penalty a fine for $1000 and not a revocation of the offending companies license to do business in that state?I’ll tell you,it was a cash grab.California is in need of cash and will look in any direction it can to find it.Sorry Johneboy1970 but thats as civil as I can be when it comes to this kind of attempted nonsense on the part of ppl in charge of our governments.Anyone care to guess how much taxpayer money was wasted on this btw?

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