00:00:00:09 - 00:00:35:03 Rev. Trudy Jesus didn't say, come to the temple. He told his disciples to follow him. So why are you standing still? Welcome to Perspectives, a podcast where the clergy women of the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. Welcome to this episode of Perspectives. I am Reverend Trudy Robinson, and I am here with Garrett Doss-Ganucheau, and I am so excited to be talking with you, Garrett. 00:00:35:05 - 00:01:07:18 Rev. Trudy You are a Christian. You are my staff person. You are my friend. I'm really excited that you're sitting down with me to talk about this. We are starting a brand-new sermon series. We're talking about: What Does Thi$ $ay About Us? And we're looking at some of the passages that Jesus calls disciples to. And we're trying to see what exactly it means for us to answer and what it says about us when we do. 00:01:08:00 - 00:01:10:18 Rev. Trudy And so, I'm glad you're here, and I'm glad you're here. 00:01:10:19 - 00:01:11:12 Garrett Glad to be here. 00:01:11:12 - 00:01:37:05 Rev. Trudy Thank you. Yeah. So, the scripture passage that we've been playing with this week for this first week in this series is Mark 1:16-20. I know you know it. Most everybody knows it. This is how it goes: “As Jesus passed alongside the Sea of Galilee. He saw two brothers, Simon and Andrew, throwing fishing nets into the sea, 00:01:37:06 - 00:02:05:06 Rev. Trudy for they were fishermen. ‘Come and follow me,’ he said, ‘and I'll show you how to fish for people right away.’ They left their nets and followed him. After going a little farther, he saw James and John, Zebedee sons, in their boat, repairing the fishing nets. And at that very moment he called them, and they followed him, leaving their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired workers.” 00:02:05:08 - 00:02:09:14 Garrett Yes. I love this story. I really do. Yeah. 00:02:09:16 - 00:02:16:23 Rev. Trudy Do you remember hearing this when you were young? Or when did it hit you that this is an important scripture passage. 00:02:17:04 - 00:02:25:15 Garrett You know, I think it's one of those things where sometimes, when it's called a remembrance by someone else. And in this case, I'm going to say you. 00:02:25:15 - 00:02:26:18 Garrett So, I'm very familiar with it. 00:02:28:22 - 00:02:30:12 Garrett You know, maybe a couple weeks back. Right? You know. 00:02:30:14 - 00:02:31:13 Garrett We were talking about it. 00:02:32:11 - 00:02:56:21 Garrett But what I think I love about it, sometimes, there are parts of Scripture that seems so ordinary, but sometimes based on maybe a season in life conversation, maybe even a nudge from the spirit, you begin to interact and see it a little differently. So it's one of those I've appreciated. Yeah. You know, Christ calling and their response. But it's not one that I felt as— that’s the wrong word—but it's not one that I thought about very deeply until recently. 00:02:56:22 - 00:02:57:17 Garrett Okay. Yeah. 00:02:57:18 - 00:03:21:06 Rev. Trudy Okay. Yeah. I like this version of this story. Right? In the Gospel of Mark, you can hear the immediacy of it, right? Mark is known for that. Everything's immediately in the Gospel of Mark. But it strikes me, in all of the versions actually, where the people just dropped their nets and followed Jesus. Right. 00:03:21:07 - 00:03:21:22 Garrett Like suddenly. 00:03:21:23 - 00:03:22:10 Garrett Immediately. 00:03:22:10 - 00:03:34:16 Rev. Trudy Like suddenly, immediately. You know, poor Zebedee, he's in the boat still trying to fix the nets, and his sons just get up and go, right? Right. But there's … I think I can understand that. 00:03:34:20 - 00:03:35:09 Garrett Okay. 00:03:35:10 - 00:04:01:10 Rev. Trudy Right. I mean, for me, in the call to follow Jesus and to become an ordained pastor, it really is kind of that idea in your head that will not go away. Right. Right. And as it builds up, there's this kind of. Well, I just got to do it now, and it can maybe feel like, immediate. 00:04:01:12 - 00:04:04:03 Rev. Trudy I'm not sure if that's what Jesus was going for. 00:04:04:04 - 00:04:04:18 Garrett Right, right. 00:04:04:19 - 00:04:24:19 Rev. Trudy Or the gospel writer was going for with this. At the very least, it shows this great … just the charisma maybe, or the urgency and the charisma. And the call was just something they couldn't deny. 00:04:24:21 - 00:04:25:08 Garrett Yeah. 00:04:25:09 - 00:04:27:18 Rev. Trudy Does that ring true for any of your life? 00:04:27:20 - 00:04:51:17 Garrett You know, it does. But I think it … there's a lot of things that's comparable. Yeah. But then there are also some stark contrast. Yeah. You know, so for me, I recognized what I now can identify as the nudge of the spirit for so much of my life, just pulling me to the things of God. Whetting my appetite, if you will, to learn more about the divine and to walk closer with Christ. 00:04:51:21 - 00:05:01:22 Garrett And you know, there are those times where you feel it. You mentioned kind of feeling it, but sometimes we tend to push things off. And I think that's what's different for me in the Gospel of Mark. 00:05:01:22 - 00:05:02:07 Garrett Right. 00:05:02:09 - 00:05:22:06 Garrett Okay. They didn't think about ‘how am I going to support myself? I'm leaving the family business with dad.’ They didn't do all of that. They just said, ‘okay, you're calling me. So. Yeah, here I am. Let's get to it.’ And in my life and in my journey, there have been those moments with God where I knew I had to respond immediately. 00:05:22:08 - 00:05:33:15 Garrett But still tried to delay and, and then I'm dealing with that persistent yet gentle nudging that's like, ‘Yeah. Come on sir. You know I need you to get it together and listen up.’ 00:05:33:15 - 00:05:34:11 Garrett So. Yeah. 00:05:34:12 - 00:05:35:18 Garrett So I've experienced it both ways. 00:05:35:19 - 00:05:53:23 Rev. Trudy Yeah. For sure. And you know, Scripture has it both ways. Right. So many call stories have that kind of. ‘Nope. Can't do it, I stutter, I'm too young,’ whatever it is, and I, I've done that too. I've done the same kind of. Yeah. ‘Well, maybe I'll just do this instead and you’ll be satisfied.’ 00:05:54:00 - 00:05:54:09 Garrett Right. 00:05:54:11 - 00:06:07:00 Garrett Yeah. I've been there and done that as well. And I think that the good thing about God, or in my experience, is that so often we do those things, and we maybe try to turn left and we need to go right. Even those things are redeemable. 00:06:07:01 - 00:06:09:02 Garrett Right? Right. Yes. For sure. 00:06:09:04 - 00:06:10:12 Garrett I'm grateful for that. Yeah. 00:06:10:12 - 00:06:24:00 Garrett But there does come a time where sometimes we just need to maybe trust. Or I feel that we just need to trust that, ‘Okay. If this nudging is not leaving me alone, if this is still persisting, there’s got to be something to it. So let me sit with it. Let me wrestle with it.’ 00:06:25:14 - 00:06:48:20 Rev. Trudy Yeah. I mean, in all honesty, if this were to reflect my experience, okay. Our experience. I think as we've been talking. Maybe, maybe this is like the 15th time Jesus has passed by these particular fishermen are doing their daily jobs. You know, and saying the same thing. And maybe it was just this 15th time that they finally said, ‘oh, okay.’ 00:06:48:22 - 00:06:49:18 Rev. Trudy You know. 00:06:49:20 - 00:06:56:04 Garrett I mean, in true Mark fashion, it would make sense. Let me just get right to it and keep the story line moving. So, who knows? 00:06:56:06 - 00:06:58:01 Garrett That's right. That's right. That's right. 00:06:58:03 - 00:07:07:00 Rev. Trudy Now, you have always been a faithful person. A person of faith. Yes. And you haven't always worked for a church? 00:07:07:02 - 00:07:13:02 Garrett Not at all. I have not worked for a church in an official capacity until March of this year. 00:07:13:03 - 00:07:28:04 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, for those of you who have yet to meet him as an official church staff person, Garrett is our director of stewardship and development, which is … how do you how do you understand that title? 00:07:28:06 - 00:07:50:20 Garrett Gosh. Yeah. So for me, I really do believe. And I think scripture teaches an argument I didn't. Methodist tradition really teaches us a whole life stewardship mindset. When we join the church or are baptized, we take those vows, and I don't want to miss one now that we're recording. But the … our presence, our talents, our gifts, our service, our witness. 00:07:50:20 - 00:08:14:09 Garrett Right. You know, we can covenant to do these things. So, when I hear Director of Stewardship and Development, right. Obviously, there's always people immediately go to the financial component, but it's so much more: How are we serving? How are we witnessing? How are our lives speaking to the reason we do all of this, including why we invest our financial resources in Kingdom work? 00:08:14:10 - 00:08:19:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah. That's right. I love that. How is it different working for a church? 00:08:19:16 - 00:08:25:03 Garrett Very! Wery. And honestly, and all of the best ways for me. 00:08:25:05 - 00:08:26:05 Rev. Trudy Oh, good. 00:08:26:07 - 00:08:56:05 Garrett Yeah. You know, in banking for 20 years. Okay. But I was really fortunate to work for a great credit union in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And over those years there, I got to lead a lot of our community partnerships, our philanthropy. How do we actually impact this community beyond just the services we offered as a financial institution? And so I think what's really great about that is that I've, again, felt a pull from God since my early, early years. 00:08:56:06 - 00:09:20:14 Garrett I mean, as a child, I'd be the kid going to church school with prayers and wanting to participate and raise my hand. And of course, through the years, it's developed. But I, I now, I get to take 20 years of experience and interactions and working with people, and I get to actually come and bring that to the church to, I think, be used for the absolute best purposes. 00:09:20:15 - 00:09:24:14 Garrett Yeah. So that that part is really exciting for me. And the staff is pretty great, too. 00:09:24:16 - 00:09:51:21 Rev. Trudy Well, well, there you go. You know, you are the second staff person. If I can, if I can say that, okay. And part of what I'm trying to do, at least in this conversation and in thinking about this at this time of the church year, the stewardship, I'm looking at it as a way of saying, we've got some amazing people who work for the church. 00:09:52:01 - 00:10:19:07 Rev. Trudy And who have left many other, much more lucrative positions, to be a part of the church staff, to be a part of something bigger, just like Jesus calling the fishermen. And you were not the only person that moved over from a more secular job, with all of the gifts that was needed for that job, to use those gifts in the sake of the church, for the sake of the church. 00:10:19:09 - 00:10:52:06 Rev. Trudy It's you with finance, and it's Meghan Claussen in communications and digital presence, and I am so, so grateful. And to what you were saying, stewardship is about all of it is about all of life. And I just love the way in which this church has hired both you and Meghan. Not thinking there's a difference between what you do in your other job and what you would do here, right? 00:10:52:08 - 00:11:00:05 Rev. Trudy In terms of one being exclusive of the other, but it's a more it's a more cohesive life. Do you feel that way? 00:11:00:16 - 00:11:18:23 Garrett I absolutely do. I heard a preacher a long time ago, and I wish I could remember which preacher it was just to share it and give them credit. But they were teaching, and they said that for the Christian, there's no such thing as a secular job. Yeah. You know, we always divide secular and sacred. Yes. Yeah. But they really are one and the same. 00:11:18:23 - 00:11:39:06 Garrett If you're if you're a believer, if we're walking with Christ and if we understand that, even our ordinary actions in some kind of way can point somebody to that greater reality, to that, to God. God work. Right, right. Then it means whether I'm at the credit union, I'm at the bank or selling shoes, which was one of my college jobs. 00:11:39:06 - 00:11:42:09 Garrett Right. It means that I'm kind of on assignment. 00:11:42:10 - 00:11:44:07 Rev. Trudy You know, I love that. 00:11:44:07 - 00:11:46:05 Rev. Trudy I love this. You see, that's why you got this job. 00:11:46:07 - 00:11:46:22 Rev. Trudy That's why you got this job. 00:11:46:22 - 00:11:54:16 Rev. Trudy Because, yes, it's a life. It's a life that you live. And it doesn't matter whether you are working for a church or working for Dairy Queen. 00:11:54:17 - 00:11:55:16 Garrett Absolutely. 00:11:55:18 - 00:12:06:17 Rev. Trudy You are being Christ in the world. And that's really what we're trying to encourage people to follow Christ out into the world. And that's wonderful. See, that's why. 00:12:07:00 - 00:12:09:01 Rev. Trudy That's why I hired him. That's why I hired him. 00:12:09:02 - 00:12:10:03 Garrett I think it was a great choice. 00:12:10:04 - 00:12:11:09 Rev. Trudy It was a great choice. 00:12:11:14 - 00:12:12:07 Garrett I’m biased! 00:12:13:00 - 00:12:15:15 Rev. Trudy So what has been the surprise of working for the church? 00:12:15:16 - 00:12:44:20 Garrett Oh my gosh, gosh, the surprise. Let me think on that for a second. You know, I would say that, how different and not different it is working in the financial world. So you know, what I mean by that is there's absolutely, a lighter feeling and I mean that in a very positive way, a much more joyous feeling, I think, of coming in when you have a really great team assembled that understands the bigger mission. 00:12:44:22 - 00:13:04:15 Garrett Yeah. I think we do that great at First Church. You know. Yeah. Whether it's our folks working in the AV, our folks to keep facilities up and running. You know, event coordinator, whatever the different role is, when everybody kind of sees the bigger picture. Yeah. It makes you really happy that I get to be a part of this. 00:13:04:21 - 00:13:09:13 Garrett So that would be kind of the ... it was there at the previous jobs, but not at this level. 00:13:09:14 - 00:13:10:15 Rev. Trudy Okay. 00:13:10:17 - 00:13:34:19 Garrett You know, so I appreciate that. But also, at the end of the day, as kingdom people, we are in the business of people, right? I mean, we are this is what we do, we try to guide and usher and serve folks as they grow in their relationships with God and with each other. Yeah. And in that, I've also learned that people, our people, whether they're in the church, whether they're at the grocery store, whether they're at the bank, people are people. 00:13:34:21 - 00:13:44:22 Garrett And I think that was a … also with all of its beautiful messiness that is life. Yeah. You know, that was also really interesting to just kind of realize that that element is the same. 00:13:44:23 - 00:13:49:02 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. We are flawed and we are loved. 00:13:49:03 - 00:13:55:15 Garrett I am absolutely flawed and, thank God, I am absolutely loved. So, thank God for grace. 00:13:55:16 - 00:14:09:22 Rev. Trudy Yeah. So, as we come together to worship, next week. Yes. And we talk about this Mark chapter one, what do you hope people in the congregation might hear? 00:14:10:00 - 00:14:20:22 Garrett Oh, I hope that they hear that Jesus is still calling them. You know, the call is a one-time thing, a second-time thing. It's an ongoing thing. 00:14:21:00 - 00:14:21:16 Rev. Trudy 15 times. 00:14:21:17 - 00:14:46:02 Garrett Right. Absolutely. Now. Absolutely. And you know, and I think that the call also on all of our lives, whatever that looks like, it evolves. It evolves. God uses us in different ways in different times, and our different experiences equip us. So, what I really hope that as our friends and our family here at First Church hear these words that maybe they can wrestle with, “Where am I hearing God's voice?” 00:14:46:03 - 00:14:53:13 Garrett Yeah. And then, the disciples, they had to respond. And what will our response be? Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:53:14 - 00:15:13:17 Rev. Trudy Yeah. You know this story Jesus has ‘come and follow me.’ It doesn't say I'll meet you at the temple. Right. Correct. It doesn't. It doesn't say come at this spot because that's where I'm going to be and that's where I'm going to stay. Right. This is know Jesus is on the move. Yes. And it's a journey that he's inviting us to. 00:15:13:18 - 00:15:28:11 Rev. Trudy And so, the, that idea that even folks who've been in the church every Sunday for decades, they still can hear God's call. And it will be different for this time and this place. 00:15:28:14 - 00:15:46:12 Garrett I agree completely, and I think following Jesus brings us into places we would have never thought. I mean, just when we look at his life. He came into contact with all types of people. Those that were in, those that were out. Yeah. Those that the religious groups of the day said, ‘Don't go over there.’ And yet he did. 00:15:46:14 - 00:16:07:11 Garrett So, I think that invitation to follow, it sounds nice because we dress it up really pretty in the church. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Until he calls you into an uncomfortable place. Until he calls you into a messy place. Until maybe he even calls you into a place where it might offend good church people. Yeah. So, it's exciting, but it can be a little scary sometimes. 00:16:07:14 - 00:16:11:00 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to name names? No. 00:16:11:06 - 00:16:16:05 Garrett No, no, you're not gonna get me in trouble. Yeah. No. 00:16:16:07 - 00:16:43:17 Rev. Trudy You know, following Jesus. It's … my journey has been in the Methodist church itinerate. Right? So, we've been moved from church to church. And every church is different. And like you said about this church, we're holy and sacred and extraordinarily flawed and human to the core. And every church I've been at has been the same kind of thing. 00:16:43:17 - 00:17:07:19 Rev. Trudy And there have been some really difficult times. And then there have been some beautiful times. And sometimes in the span of 20 minutes and at each church and, and it's funny because there are times when I, I feel as though … I'm supposed to go and serve churches and the people in these churches so that they can be better Christians. 00:17:07:19 - 00:17:35:20 Rev. Trudy But honestly, I think it's all been about me because I have become a better Christian. If I can say that, it's kind of a weird way to say it, but it's because I'm just so aware of how much I've learned to be with people and to claim community and to build community and to be able to guide folks from where they are to where we can go together. 00:17:35:22 - 00:17:50:21 Rev. Trudy And, and it's a journey all the time. And, if we think anybody is outside the realm of being able to be changed on that journey, we are missing the story. 00:17:51:02 - 00:17:52:12 Garrett Yeah, absolutely. 00:17:52:13 - 00:17:54:01 Rev. Trudy Missing the story. 00:17:54:03 - 00:18:21:04 Garrett You know, one thing I really appreciate here at First Church, for any of us that have been in maybe different churches or even at the same church with different pastors, right, as our pastors move in our tradition. I wasn't always United Methodist. And I think that, when I was younger and maybe some of the pastoral leadership I was under, it was very much of that pastor is that dispenser of truth and that wellspring of all knowledge in every situation. 00:18:21:04 - 00:18:28:11 Garrett And what I really appreciate here is that we have phenomenal leadership. I'll sing your praises all day long. But what I'm also— 00:18:28:14 - 00:18:31:05 Rev. Trudy That’s also why I hired him! 00:18:31:07 - 00:19:00:15 Garrett Praise your interviewer. It pays dividends! But yeah, but no, you're great. And you know I love to laugh. Yeah. But I think that, I really get the feeling with you and Reverend Hannah and Reverend Brittany, that the three of you are fellow travelers with us. And I think that accessibility of all three of your leadership styles is varied as they are, but that's in common. 00:19:00:17 - 00:19:19:04 Garrett And there's something to be said for that, because I think when we see, and I, “we” as church folk, as members, as seekers, as followers of Christ, when we see our, our pastors, yes, providing real leadership but also providing real companionship along the journey. It really makes you feel not so alone in this Jesus journey. 00:19:19:05 - 00:19:19:23 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:19:20:00 - 00:19:20:12 Garrett Yeah. 00:19:20:14 - 00:19:49:14 Rev. Trudy I appreciate that too, because the pedestal is not a fun place to be, right? I mean, sure, it has its perks, but you can fall. And so that that shared journey is really beautiful. You were talking about just you never know exactly where that journey will end up. And I never thought part of my ministry would be doing a podcast, right? 00:19:49:17 - 00:20:08:12 Rev. Trudy I mean, when I first started, there was nothing like this, right? And so, I am also very pleased with the way in which we as a church, have been mindful that we can't stay in the same place either. Right. 00:20:08:12 - 00:20:09:12 Garrett Absolutely. 00:20:09:12 - 00:20:14:15 Rev. Trudy We gotta be able to, to move for the needs of the present day. 00:20:14:17 - 00:20:15:06 Garrett Yeah. 00:20:15:08 - 00:20:17:10 Rev. Trudy And that's what this is about. 00:20:17:11 - 00:20:38:12 Garrett And I got to say that that is, when I talk to people all the time back home in Louisiana, friends that I meet here that are maybe not a part of church communities, and I get to talk about First Church. One of the things that that being here, like you said, doing these new things and reaching people in new ways and being open in that way, 00:20:38:13 - 00:21:00:14 Garrett it has expanded me. I, I like the word stretched, but that can sometimes give the wrong connotation because it really is about expansion. But it's expanded me to think differently about, not only the impact we can have, but the ways that we can go about fostering that impact, that still yield these results, which I think are lives touched and lives healed and lives restored. 00:21:00:14 - 00:21:14:08 Garrett Right. In beloved community. And so, again, I've shared with you that there are things that have happened just in my short time at this church that have had me buy into the vision hook, line and sinker. And I'm here and glad to be. 00:21:14:10 - 00:21:25:13 Rev. Trudy Thank you, Garrett. We are so glad that you are here, too. I know whenever you're gone for a day, the whole office seems just a little bit less happy. So— 00:21:25:15 - 00:21:29:07 Garrett Maybe quiet [laughter] 00:21:29:09 - 00:21:33:08 Rev. Trudy Who would want to shut down that laugh? Who would want to shut down that laugh? 00:21:33:10 - 00:22:01:09 Rev. Trudy I'm so glad that you're part of our staff. You bring so many gifts, and we learn from each other. And I do hope that, as we share this with listeners all over the place that you hear, you hear a lot of things. I hope, I hope you listeners hear, and the baseline of what we're trying to say is that that Jesus still calls. 00:22:01:11 - 00:22:05:08 Rev. Trudy And there's this journey still to be had. 00:22:05:10 - 00:22:06:00 Garrett Absolutely. 00:22:06:01 - 00:22:29:21 Rev. Trudy And there are people that can walk with you. So, like us, choose us. Choose us. I'm being silly, but, I'm really proud of what we're doing together. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening. Kind of different kind of podcast this morning. But I enjoyed talking with you, Garrett. Always. You have such good faith, and I love it. 00:22:29:23 - 00:23:05:13 Rev. Trudy And so, we want you to consider all of what we've talked about. But to that end, I would encourage you to think about the way in which you have something that is spinning in your mind that might just be a call to do something. And if you do, think on that, share what that is with someone you trust. And consider: How important it might be for you to follow that invitation to come? 00:23:05:15 - 00:23:13:07 Rev. Trudy So, lots of things to think about. Thanks for listening and we hope to see you next time. 00:23:13:09 - 00:23:14:11 Garrett Bye. Thank you. 00:23:14:14 - 00:23:32:14 Rev. Trudy Thank you. [laughter] This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit FUMCSD.org