00:00:00:12 - 00:00:27:13 Rev. Trudy Was Jesus resurrected in body or spirit? Does it matter? What does it mean for us today? Welcome to Perspectives, a podcast where the clergy women at the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. Welcome to this episode of Perspectives. I'm Reverend Trudy Robinson. I'm here with Reverend Brittany Juliette Hanlin. 00:00:27:15 - 00:00:55:00 Rev. Trudy We are continuing our series on The People of the Passion. This conversation in Lent, where we're looking at all these individuals in these stories to see whether or not we are represented there as well. Today, we're talking about the narrators. We've actually been talking about a lot of things lately, and I just have to circle back around because Sunday was the Academy Awards. 00:00:55:02 - 00:01:21:03 Rev. Trudy Did you watch it? We had such great conversations. I hope you have found the episodes, the special episodes of a podcast called Reel Theology. Reverend Brittany and myself, and myself and Reverend Hannah, have talked about some of the amazing movies that were nominated for Best Picture or some other Academy Award. I was going to kind of wrap up and talk. 00:01:21:05 - 00:01:27:16 Rev. Trudy Okay, well, well, I was. I'll find my other film friends that can talk to me about the Oscars. 00:01:27:16 - 00:01:33:06 Rev. Brittany Did Sister Act 2 win? [laughter] 00:01:33:08 - 00:02:06:16 Rev. Trudy Anyway. It's there for your listening pleasure. I hope you will tune in if you like the films. You can just put the hand up to Reverend Brittany. No, she doesn't get up. Yes. Here we are today, though. Yes. To talk about another piece of The Passion story. And it's been a little strange kind of talking about these pieces of the story in a way that we share that with others because we know the story so well, but we don't often get to do any kind of interpretation with them. 00:02:06:16 - 00:02:33:08 Rev. Trudy Not in sermons. You know, we just tend to hear it. And that's about it. So, this is a passage that we know is from the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 27, verses 62 through 66. This scripture passage comes after Jesus has died. And so, it begins like this: “The next day, which was the day after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate. 00:02:33:10 - 00:02:56:10 Rev. Trudy They said, ‘Sir, we remember that while the deceiver was still alive, he said, after three days I will arise. Therefore, order the grave to be sealed until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people, “Oh, he's been raised from the dead.” This last deception will be worse than the first.’ 00:02:56:12 - 00:03:22:00 Rev. Trudy And Pilate replied, ‘You have soldiers for guard duty. Go and make it as secure as you know how.’ Then they went and secured the tomb by sealing the stone and posting the guard.” Okay, so there's a lot in here, but I want to first talk about what it is all about. The resurrection. Right. 00:03:22:01 - 00:03:36:07 Rev. Trudy It is all about the idea that a man can die and be resurrected again. Has it ever been a controversial idea in your mind? 00:03:36:09 - 00:03:41:18 Rev. Brittany I don't think it became controversial in my mind until divinity school. 00:03:41:21 - 00:03:42:19 Rev. Trudy Oh, okay. 00:03:42:20 - 00:04:02:19 Rev. Brittany And I had never thought about it before in any intellectual way other than, like, I was told that. And that's what happened, and that's what I believed. So, it's not necessarily controversial, and I don't think I've ever, I'd never thought about it in depth in the way that I think about it now. Yeah. And really what that means. 00:04:02:19 - 00:04:04:00 Rev. Brittany Yeah. To the faith. 00:04:04:02 - 00:04:19:01 Rev. Trudy To the faith. I'm the same way. You know, we learn this story. I mean I was young and drawing pictures of Jesus on the cross and the tomb empty. Right. 00:04:19:03 - 00:04:43:09 Rev. Trudy We are church kids. So, we really didn't think about it. It was just so foundational to us. But I'm struck by, as we have grown and as we've gone through seminary, I'm struck by the way in which it still becomes such an interesting conversation, because people want to know exactly what that means. They want to know what kind of body was resurrected and was it spiritual? 00:04:43:09 - 00:04:58:13 Rev. Trudy Was it a regular body? Is it when I'm 30 or is it when I'm 65? You know, those kinds of things, right? And I think all of that is like a distraction. So, what it really needs to mean. 00:04:58:15 - 00:05:19:06 Rev. Brittany Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I remember being in divinity school and thinking like oh I'm going to get a PhD in ethics. And I don't even think that the resurrection is important. And then I had I said that to someone and they were like, “no, the resurrection is the crux of our faith. It's not about necessarily whether a body was raised.” 00:05:19:06 - 00:05:46:00 Rev. Brittany “It's about this idea that death doesn't have the final say.” And I was like, “oh, I can get … yes, absolutely right.” But it was, you know, sometimes you intellectualize things so much that the faith aspects, you lose. And I think that you have to have … in our quadrilateral, you have to both have your reason but you also need a bit of faith to lean into, to make it. 00:05:46:02 - 00:06:12:13 Rev. Trudy Right, right, right. Yeah. It's a little bit of mystery. Yeah. I mean, to I think the resurrection has been that one thing that has distinguished Christianity from all the other faith traditions. Right? It is the one leader, the founder of whatever tradition it is that died and still lives. It's not reincarnation, right? It is still, 00:06:12:15 - 00:06:40:10 Rev. Trudy “He lives.” And that's why it's become so central. But it has been complicated because we have taken the mystery out of it, I think. And it's really difficult. I mean, I think of the scriptures, the apostle Paul, who really is the one that shaped the Christian faith. Yeah. She's, you're, giving me a fun smile right there because you love the apostle Paul. 00:06:40:12 - 00:07:02:15 Rev. Trudy But he was the one that wrote the first kind of letters. Before the Gospels were written. So? So, he really shapes what Christianity is in those early, first, few decades. Right. And he talks nothing about his life, a Jesus's life. Yeah. He talks nothing about the ministry he did. It is all about the resurrection. 00:07:02:15 - 00:07:06:18 Rev. Trudy Crucified and resurrected. Yeah. 00:07:06:20 - 00:07:30:15 Rev. Brittany Well, I think that's interesting that he doesn't mention anything about Jesus' life. Which, it's like, when Paul encountered Jesus, he encountered this resurrected Christ. Right? Right. So, I don't think that he … I think that his … I think where you meet Jesus is where you hold on to him. Yeah. You know, so I've, as a child, he, 00:07:30:18 - 00:07:50:15 Rev. Brittany Jesus, was a part of my everyday conversation. So, I didn't think too much about whether it was a historical fact or whether it was just “that's the story.” That's Jesus. This is our faith. So, that's kind of where I stood until I grew and gained some other information and then had to go back to my childhood faith and kind of reconcile them together and grow it up. 00:07:50:18 - 00:08:06:10 Rev. Brittany Yeah. But yeah, Paul spends a lot of time on the resurrection because I think that he encounters this resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus, which is different than the stories that, of course, they're telling in the gospel that talk about the ministry. Right? 00:08:06:10 - 00:08:27:08 Rev. Trudy Right. You know, for so many of those stories, this one is in particular, Paul and the encounter on the road to Damascus. I want to know just what happened. Yeah. You know. In the moment of resurrection, what happened? I do want to know kind of what that means. And all we're given is mystery, right? 00:08:27:10 - 00:08:56:17 Rev. Trudy And I think that's really perfect. Because it won't ever be the same. And even Paul, he writes in 1 Corinthians 15, he talks about the resurrection and the importance of the resurrection. But then, he goes on, and this is in verse 35 moving forward. In the Common English translation. Someone will ask, “How are the dead raised?” 00:08:56:19 - 00:09:20:08 Rev. Trudy “What kind of body will they come?” And Paul says, “Oh, that's just so foolish. How foolish.” This translation says: “When you sow, you do not plant the body that it will be but just a seed.” And this kind of implies that there's an … all sorts of seeds out there. Right. And he goes on: “People have one kind in the flesh.” 00:09:20:08 - 00:09:33:01 Rev. Trudy “Animals have another, birds another, fish another. There are heavenly bodies, earthly bodies, different kinds of splendor.” And then he goes on to this splendor aspect of the resurrection of who we can become. 00:09:33:02 - 00:09:33:18 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:09:33:20 - 00:09:55:23 Rev. Trudy In the resurrection. And he says: “The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another, the stars another. And one star differs from another star in splendor.” So, he adds, he kind of just makes fun of the idea that we want to know so badly when he's really inviting us to simply enjoy the beauty of it. 00:09:56:00 - 00:09:57:17 Rev. Trudy Whatever that looks like. 00:09:57:18 - 00:09:58:00 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:09:58:05 - 00:10:00:13 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:10:00:15 - 00:10:03:21 Rev. Brittany I had a thought and has it just left to my mind about this … 00:10:03:22 - 00:10:06:11 Rev. Trudy Let me keep going then. Oh! You got it. You got it. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. 00:10:06:12 - 00:10:09:22 Rev. Brittany I can keep it. I keep it in here because I can't. 00:10:09:23 - 00:10:33:18 Rev. Trudy Okay. Well, he goes on and this is what I think is really beautiful. Especially when it's talking about the beauty that is in each seed. If he's talking that way he talks about the resurrection. In ways he says “dishonor will be raised in glory. Weakness will be raised in power.” Right. “A natural body will be raised in the spiritual body.” 00:10:33:20 - 00:10:39:01 Rev. Trudy But it's that hope of truly a different kind of life. 00:10:39:02 - 00:10:41:09 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:10:41:11 - 00:10:46:01 Rev. Trudy And it's a much more beautiful life. And a much more mysterious life. 00:10:46:07 - 00:11:08:18 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I think for me, the resurrection has meaning because there are parts of me, if I think about it like that, sometimes feel dead. Right. Like my hope may feel dead. And I think of some, if someone is hopeful they might not need hope resurrected in them, but maybe they need joy resurrected in them. Or maybe they need love resurrected in them. 00:11:08:18 - 00:11:25:01 Rev. Brittany And so, Paul's words about it looking, I guess, different for every person. Yeah, it's kind of where I find that to be that God will resurrect in me what has shown up dead, right? Based on what it is that I need as an individual. I think. 00:11:25:01 - 00:11:26:01 Rev. Trudy That's. Yeah. 00:11:26:03 - 00:11:34:15 Rev. Brittany The beauty to me of the resurrection. That's right. In a theological standpoint, not necessarily in the historical Jesus standpoint. 00:11:34:17 - 00:12:00:15 Rev. Trudy And when you think about it, you know, dishonor means something different. Our experiences of being negated or ignored or left out or diminished, whatever, that's all different. And it leaves different wounds and the weaknesses that we have, that's all different too. But all of it is this invitation to believe that whatever is happening now is not going to be how it always will be. 00:12:00:15 - 00:12:04:19 Rev. Brittany Correct. Say that again. 00:12:04:21 - 00:12:10:07 Rev. Trudy Whatever is happening now, is not going to be how it always will be. 00:12:10:09 - 00:12:13:04 Rev. Brittany That's the good news, right. That's the good news. 00:12:13:04 - 00:12:15:13 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:12:15:15 - 00:12:31:20 Rev. Brittany Less about, I mean, to me, it's less about the physical resurrection of the body. While that is still significant to our faith. It's really that death doesn't have the final say. The Empire doesn't win. Yeah. And that what it looks like right now is not what it will always look like. 00:12:31:21 - 00:13:08:04 Rev. Trudy That's right. That's right. And I think we really can't get there, unless we stop talking about what the resurrection looks like. We really can't get there if we just keep the resurrection as a statement of belief. As a confession of affirmation. We can't get to that place unless we really lean into the mystery. That means we don't have to know. 00:13:08:06 - 00:13:09:00 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:13:09:02 - 00:13:18:10 Rev. Brittany Yeah. Isn't there. I know that there's a line in the Great Thanksgiving, our communion liturgy, that talks about the mystery of our faith. Right. 00:13:18:11 - 00:13:39:04 Rev. Trudy Like “Christ is born. Christ has died. Christ will come again.” Correct. That's right. And yet, we read that so literally. “Christ died.” Yes. We know the crucifixion. “Christ is risen.” We know the resurrection. “Christ will come again.” Oh yeah. That's the second coming. That's in the scriptures. But it's all so small. 00:13:39:04 - 00:13:41:04 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:13:41:09 - 00:14:14:09 Rev. Trudy Right. It's all in such a tiny little box. That we can picture what it looks like. Yeah. And even if it is, you know, Jesus coming down on the cloud in the Second Coming, or whatever, but rarely is it this idea that that Christ is born in us, that the resurrection can happen while we're living, that we can find that honor and that believing in our lives here and also through our service and love of others. 00:14:14:11 - 00:14:43:22 Rev. Brittany Correct. That's correct. Right. And that's why there's such, I think, so many people are so concerned or anxious about when Christ is coming again. Right. Because it's taken out of the sense of like how Christ is born in us. And it goes into this heavenly divine figure coming down on the cloud and taking these and leaving these. 00:14:43:22 - 00:14:45:10 Rev. Brittany And then the rapture has come. 00:14:45:11 - 00:14:46:08 Rev. Trudy Right. Right. 00:14:46:12 - 00:15:02:21 Rev. Brittany But what if the rapture is really that we are left stuck in one part, one box of our lives, right. Because we've refused to evolve into, grow with the Spirit of God, that is trying to awaken us. 00:15:02:23 - 00:15:22:22 Rev. Trudy What if the Second Coming has already happened in individuals as we embrace that mystery? Right. What if, Girl?! What if?! Okay. So now we have these Roman Empire employees, if you will. Soldiers, Pilate. 00:15:22:22 - 00:15:26:04 Rev. Brittany Of the Church, though? Hold on! 00:15:26:06 - 00:15:27:04 Rev. Trudy Well, I just gotta get there. 00:15:27:07 - 00:15:30:12 Rev. Brittany I would say, I was, I don't know, let's get into the religious. 00:15:30:15 - 00:16:01:14 Rev. Trudy We'll get back to the church for sure. But back to the scriptures. Okay. You know, they are wanting a different narrative. Jesus didn't get resurrection. Somebody stole his body. There you go. Right. And that's a different narrative, right? Yeah. And I just think about all the different narratives that I have given myself over the resurrection, just as you have, you know, coming into these little new learnings and shifting in the understanding we've been telling. 00:16:01:17 - 00:16:29:13 Rev. Trudy I've been telling myself, you know, different kinds of versions of the story of what it means to say Jesus was resurrected from the dead all along, and these guys don't want that story to get out into the mystery of any of it. Yeah. Right. And the institutional church has a hard time with mystery. There it is. I just gave it to the church. 00:16:29:16 - 00:16:32:06 Rev. Brittany I didn't say it. 00:16:32:08 - 00:16:55:08 Rev. Trudy Well it's true. I mean the orthodoxy that comes after Constantine, becomes a Christian. It has shut down so much mystery. And yet we still have mystics. We had mystics back in the day, and we still do. And we don't know what to do with them. Sometimes after they've been persecuted and shunned and excommunicated, 00:16:55:09 - 00:17:12:02 Rev. Trudy we make them saints. But there is still that mysticism. And I have begun to wonder if those who are claiming spiritual but not religious might be touching into that. 00:17:12:04 - 00:17:13:18 Rev. Brittany I think so. 00:17:13:19 - 00:17:14:07 Rev. Trudy Or could be. 00:17:14:07 - 00:17:40:01 Rev. Brittany I don't think every one of them. You know, I think, but I think generally. Yeah, yeah. Not far from it at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that the narrative that they want to change. Right. And I believe I read this correctly in one of our commentaries, is that when Matthew writes this gospel, it has already been like whispering that the resurrection didn't happen. 00:17:40:01 - 00:18:02:23 Rev. Brittany “The disciples sold the body, of course.” And so, Matthew's trying to make sure that, like, you know, like to lean into the mystery of it without, you know, trying to come up with your proper evidence as to why it didn't happen. Right. And I know, at least with me. Right. There are instances in my life where I am ready to shut it down immediately. 00:18:02:23 - 00:18:18:12 Rev. Brittany I'm like, girl, like I'm already ready for a rebuttal as to why I think that thing is not what you say it is, right? Right. I think that's human nature. Yeah. Especially when it's something that you can't explain. Right it. Right. You've never seen it before? Yeah. 00:18:18:12 - 00:18:20:06 Rev. Trudy You know, a bit of doubt. Suspicion. 00:18:20:11 - 00:18:21:01 Rev. Brittany Correct. 00:18:21:02 - 00:18:22:13 Rev. Trudy You know. Yeah. 00:18:22:14 - 00:18:23:18 Rev. Brittany Like what? What is that? 00:18:23:20 - 00:18:24:15 Rev. Trudy I don't know. 00:18:24:17 - 00:18:28:16 Rev. Brittany You know, freely. Kind of buttermilk ain’t clean conspiracy theory. 00:18:28:16 - 00:18:29:08 Rev. Trudy Really? 00:18:29:08 - 00:18:33:02 Rev. Brittany Right. Come on. You know, deep, deep state. 00:18:33:05 - 00:18:37:00 Rev. Trudy Really. You know, or whatever. Right? Whatever it is. 00:18:37:01 - 00:19:01:17 Rev. Brittany Exactly. So, I think that in Matthew making note that a part of the reason that you are questioning this is because there were the institution in and of itself. Right? The religious figures wanted to sow that level of doubt. Right. The Empire wanted to sow that little bit of doubt within you. Yeah. Yeah. 00:19:01:18 - 00:19:14:04 Rev. Brittany Which is different than if he didn't have to say that. You know what I mean? Like, if he didn't, if it was just like, “okay, we need to close up the tomb.” Right? But he gives a very specific instance as why the tomb that's enclosed. 00:19:14:06 - 00:19:17:07 Rev. Trudy That's right. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. 00:19:17:09 - 00:19:19:03 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:19:19:05 - 00:19:25:05 Rev. Trudy And that just means for me. 00:19:25:07 - 00:19:53:14 Rev. Trudy You know, I'm not necessarily. I don't know how to say this. I'll just blurt it out. That just means for me, the fact that we have this story is pretty astounding. Not so much because it was written in scripture. Not because …. It’s because it took so long to get written. 00:19:53:16 - 00:20:27:06 Rev. Trudy And there needed to be a movement that kept it alive. There needed to be people who were willing to make those statements as a leap of faith. As a leaning into mystery. That kept that hope, that mystery alive. Right. There were a lot of messiahs in that first century Palestine, a lot of people going around saying, “oh, I got the way.” A lot of the zealots that Judas is sometimes said to be a part of. 00:20:27:10 - 00:20:53:16 Rev. Trudy There were a lot of people who were going to save Israel, save the Jewish people, save people from all sorts of atrocities of the Roman Empire. Lots of messiahs. A lot of them, I'm quite sure, made it up on that long road lined with crucifixes. Hanging there as an example. But Jesus. 00:20:53:18 - 00:20:57:13 Rev. Trudy His story is here. Doesn’t that blow your mind? 00:20:57:15 - 00:21:12:20 Rev. Brittany It does blow my mind. It blows my mind for a lot of different reasons because I, you know I, this is just me, I'm not speaking for the United Methodist Church or First Church of San Diego. But … 00:21:12:22 - 00:21:14:20 Rev. Trudy Can you print that somewhere? A disclosure? 00:21:14:22 - 00:21:41:06 Rev. Brittany There's something about … I appreciate the resurrection for the things that I've already mentioned. But there's something about the resurrection really having significance for me, knowing what who Jesus was and what Jesus did and what he taught. You know. And so, I can't just hold on to the resurrection without thinking about how he was born and who is mother was and how he grew up in the city that he grew up in. 00:21:41:06 - 00:22:12:07 Rev. Brittany And, you know, the fact that he was 12 years old and lost in the like … I can't, right? The resurrection means so much to me because I've seen the trajectory of his life and the story that is told. Yeah. And the good that he did and the opposition that he was up against in the world and how hard that is to do good in the world, to try to be a beacon of light and hope, and to know that you're still going to run up against. 00:22:12:07 - 00:22:35:16 Rev. Brittany I mean, no matter how sweet, no matter how kind, no matter how justice-oriented you are, there will still be people or institutions that will want to sully that, right, and crucify you. Right? And the good news is that you may die this death, but that God is still going to do a new thing. Yeah. In the midst of it. 00:22:35:17 - 00:22:44:00 Rev. Brittany Yeah. So, it's the whole arc of his life, right? That gets me to the power of the resurrection because of those things that have come before. 00:22:44:00 - 00:23:23:14 Rev. Trudy Absolutely. Yeah. I remember a mentor had once shared with me that, you know, people think Mother Teresa was just an extraordinary human being and a saint. And he always reminds us of the difference between Mother Teresa and Jesus by saying nobody wanted to kill her. Right. Okay. So, to your point, the life that he lived, led, and the extremes that he went to to call out the injustice and to stick with it to the very end is mind blowing. 00:23:23:16 - 00:23:29:06 Rev. Trudy And makes the resurrection that much more, powerful. Yeah. Yeah. 00:23:29:08 - 00:23:49:22 Rev. Brittany And I think for me, one of the most significant pieces is when Jesus is on the cross, you know. And, “Is there any other way?” Like, you know, “God, why have you forsaken me?” You know, like the real humanity? Yeah. In that divine expression that he, you know, is having there up on the cross for me is very significant because who wants to die? 00:23:49:22 - 00:24:10:17 Rev. Brittany Right. Really? You know what I mean? I don't, and especially in our culture, I think death has such … We don't deal with it well. We don't talk about it often, and we just kind of, you know, push it off to the side. But it reminds me, like, no one really wants to die. Not even the Messiah that we know as Christians wanted to die. 00:24:10:18 - 00:24:17:19 Rev. Brittany You know, and still, there was a beauty that came from that death. Yeah. And that's the resurrection. 00:24:17:20 - 00:24:47:08 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. I think there's also a part of the resurrection that I want to believe in. And that is, it's not just for me. Right. Hello. It's not just so that I am saved. Right, right. Because that wouldn't align with what Jesus lived. Right. And I think as I think about, you know, the Paul's writing, “what is dishonor will be raised in glory.” 00:24:47:08 - 00:25:11:22 Rev. Trudy “What is weakness raised in power?” I think we need to claim that possibility. That the dishonor I feel, the weakness I feel, is not going to be all of who I am. And we need to offer that to others, too. Right. We need to offer the fact that if that person did something really dishonorable, really stupid, really unbelievable. 00:25:12:00 - 00:25:36:07 Rev. Trudy We have to recognize that there can still be growth. There can still be repentance. There can still be a fulfillment of a different kind of life. And we have to allow that to other people. We have to allow the resurrection could be for some, someone else. And if we look at the resurrection in this way, it's not just “you get the resurrection if you say the right words” right. 00:25:36:09 - 00:25:40:01 Rev. Brittany Because the words don't matter unless the action behind them. 00:25:40:04 - 00:25:52:02 Rev. Trudy Well, yeah. Yeah. I just, my thoughts. So, it's really a matter of taking the narrative. Taking the story. However you understand this new life through the resurrection. 00:25:52:02 - 00:25:53:00 Rev. Brittany Right. 00:25:53:02 - 00:26:04:09 Rev. Trudy And understanding it is yours and you have an obligation to share it with others. Absolutely. Right. Sounds like I could be a televangelist. You know, a little bit. 00:26:04:09 - 00:26:10:15 Rev. Brittany Go tell it on the mountain. I, you know. 00:26:10:17 - 00:26:32:17 Rev. Brittany I always hope. Right. That I will be a person that can extend that grace and believing that other people have the ability to change. Because I would hope that when I fall short, people don't just assume that that's, you know, all that I will be. It's not necessarily my strong point. Right. If I'm being honest, it's something that 00:26:32:17 - 00:26:52:17 Rev. Brittany I work through and I'm still working through. God is yet working on me. Yeah. But I always appreciate your being a pillar of grace. I say that, but I really do mean it, because it, you know, I can be a little closed off into here. That part of the resurrection. You know, I was thinking of it differently and extending the grace. 00:26:52:17 - 00:26:57:06 Rev. Brittany But to hear it. Just kind of. 00:26:57:08 - 00:27:00:20 Rev. Brittany Brought me back to remembering that it's not just mine. 00:27:01:02 - 00:27:01:13 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:27:01:13 - 00:27:21:17 Rev. Brittany And it's not just about me. Even though there are personal parts of it for me that it's Christ didn't just die. Christ didn't die to be my Lord and personal Savior. Right. Christ died so that people might live in a world where hope abounds and where love meets them, and where grace knocks on their door. So. 00:27:21:19 - 00:27:22:17 Rev. Trudy Absolutely. 00:27:22:17 - 00:27:24:16 Rev. Brittany Thanks for the conviction. 00:27:24:18 - 00:27:37:01 Rev. Trudy I'm trying you know, I, I'm waiting to get to the place where I can offer grace without muttering a whole other narrative in my head around what I really want to say. So, you know, there's that. 00:27:37:03 - 00:27:37:23 Rev. Brittany It's a learning curve. 00:27:38:00 - 00:27:40:07 Rev. Trudy It's a learning curve. Good talk. 00:27:40:09 - 00:28:05:16 Rev. Brittany Good talk. We did some narrating today! But we have a couple questions that we'd like you to reflect on. You can reflect on them internally, or you can chat with the people in your life about them. But here they are: What significance does the resurrection of Jesus mean for you? The second: How does that understanding of the resurrection appear in your daily life? 00:28:05:18 - 00:28:23:07 Rev. Brittany And third: How does the resurrection impact your relationship with others? We hope that you'll spend some time thinking and reflecting on those questions, and we would love to hear some of your thoughts. So let us know what you're thinking. Bye! 00:28:23:09 - 00:28:39:06 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org.