00:00:03:09 - 00:00:24:04 Rev. Brittany Welcome to another episode of Reel Theology. I'm Reverend Brittany. I'm here with Reverend Trudy. We have been talking about movies today. We've watched them last night. We talked about Sentimental Value — very good movie — earlier. And now we're going to talk about one of my favorites. I think Reverend Trudy is going to have a lot to say about this one. 00:00:24:06 - 00:00:37:23 Rev. Brittany And this movie is called Sinners, which is already starting us on a theological journey because. Right. Which of us are not sinners? Exactly. So, Reverend Trudy. 00:00:38:00 - 00:00:40:23 Rev. Brittany What are you thinking? I loved. 00:00:40:23 - 00:00:41:07 Rev. Trudy This. 00:00:41:10 - 00:00:42:18 Rev. Brittany Did you love it? 00:00:42:20 - 00:01:05:22 Rev. Trudy You and I actually saw it in the theaters when it first came out on the big screen. If you have an opportunity to do it on the big screen, do it. We rewatched it last night on the small screen. It was still amazing, but it didn't quite overwhelm you like the big theater did. It is one of these stories that has so many different levels to it, different layers. 00:01:06:00 - 00:01:19:21 Rev. Trudy It's deep, it's rich, it's exciting. It's beautifully filmed. And it hits us at so many different levels. And yeah, I am really excited to talk about this. 00:01:19:21 - 00:01:27:00 Rev. Brittany Absolutely. It's like my two favorite things, like history and theology had a baby and I loved it. 00:01:27:02 - 00:01:29:07 Rev. Trudy And it was Sinners! And it was Sinners! 00:01:29:09 - 00:01:36:13 Rev. Brittany What might be interesting? So, the movie opens with a quote that comes up later in the movie and it says, there are. 00:01:36:13 - 00:01:39:12 Rev. Trudy Kind of sets up the whole movie, the theme of the movie, right? 00:01:39:13 - 00:01:41:04 Rev. Brittany The entire. 00:01:41:06 - 00:01:42:17 Rev. Brittany The whole the foundation of 00:01:42:17 - 00:01:43:20 Rev. Trudy the movie. Yeah. Yeah. 00:01:43:20 - 00:01:58:12 Rev. Brittany “There are legends of people with the gift of making music so true that it can conjure spirits from the past and the future. This gift can bring fame and fortune, but it can also pierce the veil between life and death.” 00:01:58:14 - 00:02:08:14 Rev. Brittany And first of all, let me say I think that that stuck out to me for you so much because you are such a music person. 00:02:08:15 - 00:02:18:19 Rev. Trudy I, that piercing that veil, you know. Yeah. Life and death. The difference between past and future. Oh my gosh. Yes. Music absolutely does that. 00:02:18:21 - 00:02:45:23 Rev. Brittany Absolutely does. So the movie said that. It starts with that scene. But we meet a young man who is in the cotton field. He's a sharecropper. I think it was in 1932 is when it takes place in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and he's a sharecropper, but he is also a musician, and he has this heart and love for music. His father is a reverend, and his father is like, “no, you need to not be 00:02:46:01 - 00:03:06:19 Rev. Brittany dancing with the devil. Because you dance with the devil and you're going to bring him home,” right? And Sammy is his name. He’s like “I'm going out. I'm going to play some music. I'll see you tomorrow for church.” Right. It also, you know, when he goes into the, he goes into his dad's church and his dad wants him to read from First Corinthians. 00:03:06:21 - 00:03:10:02 Rev. Brittany Chapter 10, verse 13. 00:03:10:06 - 00:03:10:17 Rev. Trudy Yeah yeah. 00:03:10:17 - 00:03:21:15 Rev. Brittany And Sammy starts to read and then he closes the Bible and says the rest of it from memory, as though “I know this.” Right. “I know the Word. And I'm still going to, you know, take my own path.” 00:03:21:16 - 00:03:35:01 Rev. Trudy And it's all about temptation. So there's that connection between music is a temptation in the religious world, at least in this, the way it's presented here. Yeah. And he should not be doing it. 00:03:35:03 - 00:03:59:05 Rev. Brittany And that's very, I mean, that's a very common understanding, at least in the South. I can't speak for many other places. But even in a movie that talks about, chronicles, Tina Turner's life in the church. They didn't like the way that she sang because they said that it was “too much of the world.” When she was a little girl, even. So that thread of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. 00:03:59:06 - 00:04:14:14 Rev. Brittany Gospel music was of course appropriate. But blues was not seen as appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. Was inviting the devil and kind of thing. Yeah. And Sammy didn't agree with that for good reason. However, the movie. 00:04:14:16 - 00:04:15:10 Rev. Trudy Unfolds. 00:04:15:10 - 00:04:33:00 Rev. Brittany In a way that is like so twist and turny. So Sammy goes out and then he meets up with two of his cousins — Smoke and Stack — who are coming down from, back home to Mississippi from Chicago. And they are going to open up a juke joint. 00:04:33:00 - 00:04:33:16 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:04:33:17 - 00:04:52:11 Rev. Brittany And a juke joint is just like a bar in the in the country. That's right. Folks would get off work, black folks particularly, but get off of work from the plantations or sharecropping and such, and come and have a moment of drinking and dancing and fellowship together. So Smoke and Stack. 00:04:52:15 - 00:04:53:02 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:04:53:03 - 00:04:58:21 Rev. Brittany Or, Smoke, Stack, and Sammy, are the main characters, I would say. But there are some other folks and yeah. 00:04:58:22 - 00:05:25:02 Rev. Trudy Lots of wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. As they collect friends that will help them set up this juke joint. Yes. And it's, it picks up from there, this theme that music has a way to help us survive. This juke joint is intended to gather people together who aren't free anywhere else. This is in the Jim Crow era. 00:05:25:03 - 00:05:43:12 Rev. Trudy Right. Still a lot of restrictions. Still a lot of release. Racism. KKK is active. All of this, they needed their own space. And music was a way in which they could feel alive. Right. 00:05:43:14 - 00:06:08:16 Rev. Brittany And, Sammy, when the scene opens, he's in the cotton field and he's singing. Right. And that is something that is very powerful because a lot of folks who were enslaved would sing these, would sing songs of faith. Right. That would bring them through the hard days. Right? Right. And so, music has this way of speaking to the community in a way that words fall short sometimes. 00:06:08:16 - 00:06:28:23 Rev. Trudy Absolutely. I mean, I experienced that, right? Music allows me to hear things that I don't normally hear, to feel things that they don't normally feel. And if you're having — I mean, this is such a minor illustration, but I've said it before, during the pandemic, when I would feel down, I would put on an album and listen to it and feel so much better. 00:06:29:00 - 00:06:53:17 Rev. Trudy Right. So just magnify that in the idea that these black people were being so oppressed. But they had the music to take them to a different world, to have a different kind of understanding, to be able to survive yet another day. And it's a music that is theirs right. Yeah. Yeah. 00:06:53:18 - 00:06:56:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:06:56:13 - 00:07:28:03 Rev. Brittany So yeah. Smoke and Stack. They're gonna set up this juke joint. And they involve other people in the community. Right. Yeah. And so, they go get their friends that they have known for their whole lives. And one couple that was really important to me to name was the Chinese couple Bo and Grace, because there is a huge, a huge Asian and Chinese population in the South that people don't talk about, particularly in Mississippi, because those folks were hired to build the railroads. 00:07:28:03 - 00:07:38:19 Rev. Brittany And then we have to talk about the Chinese Exclusionary Acts and those kinds of things. And so, they were positioned in the African-American community because they were — that was the one place that they could go. 00:07:38:21 - 00:07:57:14 Rev. Brittany And be safe. Relatively, right, from ... not from the Klan or anything, but that they could go and make a living for themselves and build community. And so, there wasn't this “us versus them.” There was this communal understanding of life, love, and struggle together. Yeah. That I really appreciate. 00:07:57:15 - 00:08:24:03 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, I appreciated that too. So another thing that is said right after the beginning that you quoted, oh, that sets up the whole movie, is it praises music. And, you know, it's a thin veil. It can be a conduit and sometimes it can attract evil. That's where the story gets really good, right? This is where people might assume that this is a horror film. 00:08:24:03 - 00:09:07:12 Rev. Trudy It is so much more than that. Yeah, because of this context that we've already just named. And so, this music is the conduit that will attract evil. And, I feel like there's an absolute truth to that in some way. In the idea that all of the arts and all of the poetry, the imaginative creativity that we have capable. We are capable of as human beings, that help us survive horrible situations, is going to make angry whoever is wanting to undo us. 00:09:07:14 - 00:09:08:01 Rev. Brittany Correct. 00:09:08:02 - 00:09:38:19 Rev. Trudy Right. And I do feel that there are some times when we act in ways that are creative and new, and the folks who don't like anything new, and who feel threatened, will do some horrible things to keep that newness from changing or from having its impacts. Right. So, there's that truth about music can open up creativity in ways that are challenging and threatening. 00:09:38:20 - 00:09:59:08 Rev. Brittany Absolutely. And I think that his dad, when his dad was saying, you know, “if you keep dancing with the devil you're going to bring him home.” Like the idea of the devil being in, being the music angel. Right. The fallen angel. Yeah. And that's how the devil can kind of go between this world and the next. 00:09:59:10 - 00:10:01:11 Rev. Brittany That's in Ezekiel. So. 00:10:01:12 - 00:10:02:12 Rev. Trudy Oh, okay. Yeah. 00:10:02:13 - 00:10:05:10 Rev. Brittany Okay. This. Yeah. The scripture is you know. 00:10:05:10 - 00:10:06:02 Rev. Trudy What I mean. Yeah. 00:10:06:03 - 00:10:08:00 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I just looked it up. 00:10:08:02 - 00:10:32:23 Rev. Trudy It’s got some things to mine around there. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, so, it's really interesting. I think part of the religious restrictions against music. Especially if music is a conduit to the supernatural. That's threatening to religious institutions. 00:10:33:01 - 00:10:33:13 Rev. Brittany Can you say it. 00:10:33:18 - 00:10:48:21 Rev. Trudy Can I say that one more time? You know, if you can find your way to see God or any spirits of supernatural variety, without the church, then why do you need the church? 00:10:48:21 - 00:10:50:14 Rev. Brittany Why do you need the church? Right. 00:10:50:16 - 00:11:00:01 Rev. Trudy So, it's to their advantage to be able to say, “you stay away from the music. Because it might make you feel some things that you shouldn't.” 00:11:00:01 - 00:11:00:18 Rev. Brittany That you shouldn't. 00:11:00:18 - 00:11:11:20 Rev. Trudy Right. And some of that might be an empowerment. It might be a survival. It might be something more than a Sunday sermon. Can I even say that? Right. You don't need the Church. 00:11:11:21 - 00:11:23:23 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I think music helps you to ask questions that you wouldn't necessarily think of all the time on your own. Yes. Like music tells a story and makes you question the world around you. 00:11:24:00 - 00:11:24:10 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:11:24:12 - 00:11:25:12 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I think. 00:11:25:12 - 00:11:33:03 Rev. Trudy Yeah. So, the evil that this music attracts. 00:11:33:05 - 00:11:34:09 Rev. Trudy Vampires. 00:11:34:14 - 00:11:35:08 Rev. Brittany Vampires. 00:11:35:08 - 00:11:39:20 Rev. Trudy Vampires. I didn't see that coming in the movie. 00:11:39:22 - 00:11:45:21 Rev. Brittany I didn't know at first. I didn't know what was happening. There was something, I mean. Yes. 00:11:45:23 - 00:11:59:01 Rev. Brittany The there's so much, it's so rich. It's so rich. Yes. But there are, there's a scene where a man knocks on the door. Right. We're giving you spoilers. So I forgot to say that at the top. 00:11:59:03 - 00:12:00:10 Rev. Trudy Sorry. 00:12:00:12 - 00:12:01:01 Rev. Brittany But this. 00:12:01:03 - 00:12:03:06 Rev. Trudy But now. Yeah. But we'll try a name and 00:12:03:06 - 00:12:04:06 Rev. Brittany pause it. 00:12:04:08 - 00:12:04:22 Rev. Trudy 00:12:05:00 - 00:12:22:02 Rev. Brittany An come back when you've read it and then see how you felt about it. There you go. But this man, he knocks on the door, and he's trying to get in. Right. And obviously something in the buttermilk, in my opinion, was not clean because I'm like, maybe. What are you knocking on these people's door for like this and you sizzles? 00:12:22:04 - 00:12:24:06 Rev. Trudy You know he was he was physically. 00:12:24:08 - 00:12:34:21 Rev. Brittany Like a steak. Okay. Or some fajitas. And so, I was like okay. And then they. Right. And he's like he was really like and I was like okay y'all don't see the steam coming up off of him?! But. 00:12:34:21 - 00:12:36:07 Rev. Trudy Right, right. You're gonna let him in. 00:12:36:09 - 00:12:49:01 Rev. Brittany How's that? And so, they, this couple, white couple, let this white-presenting man into the home. Right. Vampires. There's a theory that they can't come in unless you invite them. 00:12:49:02 - 00:12:49:14 Rev. Trudy That's right. 00:12:49:15 - 00:12:50:10 Rev. Brittany Right. 00:12:50:12 - 00:12:51:15 Rev. Trudy And that's played out in this. 00:12:51:16 - 00:12:57:05 Rev. Brittany And that's played out in the film. Right. And that's what Sammy's dad was saying. "You're inviting the devil in." 00:12:57:10 - 00:12:58:12 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:12:58:12 - 00:13:11:22 Rev. Brittany The devil can't get to you unless you invite him in. Right. So they invite him in and the there's some natives that come and they ask this woman, "have you seen a man?" And she, in her racist — 00:13:12:00 - 00:13:12:19 Rev. Trudy Yep. 00:13:12:21 - 00:13:21:17 Rev. Brittany — inculturation. Has a gun to them. And they're like, "Okay, bye. But you're in trouble." And then she realizes that she is in trouble. 00:13:21:18 - 00:13:22:22 Rev. Trudy That she is the one in trouble. 00:13:23:00 - 00:13:23:13 Rev. Brittany She is the one. 00:13:23:14 - 00:13:29:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, the man who came sizzling, he was the one that said "I'm running away from the Indians." 00:13:29:14 - 00:13:30:11 Rev. Brittany Yeah he did. 00:13:30:11 - 00:13:58:09 Rev. Trudy And he was. He was. But not because the Indians were the threat. Correct. No. I'm sorry. They were the thing. They were actually. Yeah, yeah. Because, and here's another twist of this story, right? It's the Indians who are the good guys in this scenario, despite their, the couple's racism. Correct. They were trying, the Indians were trying to kill this man or to capture him or whatever they were. 00:13:58:14 - 00:14:01:18 Rev. Trudy They were finding him so that they would be straight. Be safe. 00:14:01:19 - 00:14:15:23 Rev. Brittany Oh, yeah. Absolutely. They gave him, I mean, they gave this woman a blessing as they left. Right. And I'm going to try to read what I wrote. "May God watch over you and be with you." And I said, "Trudy! that's a benediction!" 00:14:16:00 - 00:14:16:06 Rev. Trudy Yes. 00:14:16:11 - 00:14:18:13 Rev. Brittany That's it! That's the final farewell, baby! 00:14:18:14 - 00:14:22:16 Rev. Trudy There it is. You know. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:22:18 - 00:15:01:13 Rev. Brittany So, in this movie it also, you know, brings up a lot of the traditional African American folklore and some of the African American traditions that were brought over from West Africa into the Americas and then, you know, were created from the peoples, from history and their present circumstances. So one of the things that we see is this idea of what is referred to as Hoodoo, right, is a particular, spiritual practice of African Americans, Native African Americans that bring in a bunch of different spiritual practices from West Africa and so on and so forth. 00:15:01:15 - 00:15:25:09 Rev. Brittany And one of the women who's in the movie, her name is Annie. And she is, we would call her, she's not like a shaman, but essentially she's a medicine woman. Right? And she, people come to her for healing and protection. And so, she gives Smoke what they call a mojo bag that he kept on his body, on his person. 00:15:25:09 - 00:15:52:19 Rev. Brittany Right? As this idea of protection as he went out into the world. And so, there were these practices that took place and still do take place of providing protection with what the earth has, you know, the herbs, they're different herbs that people, you know, lean into for protection and healing and so on and so forth. So, it's not just about Christianity, but Hoodoo also has Christian practices influence there? 00:15:52:19 - 00:16:02:18 Rev. Brittany Not so. I don't want to sound sacrilegious here, but there's not a straight line of distinction between yeah, between these things. Yeah. 00:16:02:20 - 00:16:25:14 Rev. Trudy That's an interesting justification though. The Hoodoo that we see as being pretty effective. And the Christian religion, Sammy's father the preacher. Two very different ways of understanding faith, of how faith is expressed. And it's an interesting just juxtaposition. 00:16:25:14 - 00:16:44:03 Rev. Brittany Yeah. And it's this, I mean, when she said, "Soil of my soil, bone of my bone, blood of my blood. I bless you, asé." I thought, I kept thinking of "soil of my soil." "Remember that you are dust into dust. You shall return." "Bone of my bone." I kept thinking about. You know, "we were created in our mother's womb." 00:16:44:08 - 00:17:01:19 Rev. Brittany "Adam's rib." And then, also "blood of my blood." I thought about, you know, "do this in remembrance of me." So a lot of these practices were, again, heavily influenced by Christianity and African spirituality that came together and forged a way for people who were holding both. 00:17:01:20 - 00:17:33:07 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's one thing that I'm curious about. The vampires. We come to learn that whenever a new vampire, whenever someone is bitten on the neck and, dies, the vampire gets to have the knowledge of all the other vampires, all the other things that they knew in life. All the experiences. 00:17:33:07 - 00:18:03:14 Rev. Trudy And they all share that. And I got to thinking about that. That's really almost like an omniscient god, right? And theologically, there's been a trend away from that omniscient god, the God who knows absolutely everything, because it's really kind of hard to suggest there's human agency when God knows everything that's going to happen. It kind of can feel predestined. 00:18:03:16 - 00:18:32:00 Rev. Trudy And process theology would suggest that God doesn't know fully everything that's happening because we can change our decisions and we, you know, whatever decision we make in this moment is going to change the next moment. And so, that idea of God as not knowing everything. And particularly a God who's relational with humans. 00:18:32:02 - 00:19:00:00 Rev. Trudy To forge the future together. Right. As human makes decisions. It seems as though, that's an interesting side note in this film. Yeah. For me. Yeah. It's it's the idea that the bad, the evil are all one. And when I first heard that, I thought, "oh, that's so lovely," but it's evil. 00:19:00:00 - 00:19:31:02 Rev. Trudy And so let ... No, that's so evil and ... but then that element of that they know that counters kind of the relational aspect of what we see in the black community, who has to fight the vampires and that relational, that we need to know one another and process theology would say, so that we can know God, and God will know us, and we will all be in relationship together in our differences. 00:19:31:04 - 00:19:46:11 Rev. Trudy And that's how we come to know more. And in the context of this movie, that's what keeps us from using our knowledge to hurt others. Oh. Did you follow all that? I did, okay I do. There you go. 00:19:46:12 - 00:20:11:06 Rev. Brittany I did. Right. Yeah. This idea that, you know, these vampires once, like you said, once they bite the person, they become a part of the vampire fold, and then they know everything. Yeah. And they're pretty happy as vampires, right? And they were talking about this idea that the black vampires were talking about this idea, while the white ones, too, were inviting them into. 00:20:11:06 - 00:20:27:02 Rev. Brittany "You come here with us, and you won't suffer anymore. Because there is no Jim Crow over on this side," right? "There's no oppression over here." Yeah. And so. But Annie, being the spiritual woman that she is, she's like, "absolutely not." Like, "I don't want to live." 00:20:27:02 - 00:20:27:14 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:20:27:15 - 00:20:30:21 Rev. Brittany "This world in this way forever. I would rather die." 00:20:30:21 - 00:20:50:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah, right. Yeah. That just reminded me of Jesus's temptation. Right. It's that the devil can make it all look so good and can tell you just the right things and leave out just enough of the other things that you feel like. "Oh, well why not. You know, maybe that's not a bad plan." 00:20:50:08 - 00:21:01:23 Rev. Brittany Right. Exactly. Yeah. And it wouldn't be temptation if you weren't intrigued by it. That's true. You could never intrigued me with an onion sandwich. Maybe because I, you know, tempt me with that. Because I'm not meat. Because I don't like that. 00:21:02:01 - 00:21:03:10 Rev. Trudy But there you go. 00:21:03:10 - 00:21:07:21 Rev. Brittany That's right. There are many other things that I enjoy, right? Right. So, yeah, this movie. 00:21:09:08 - 00:21:18:05 Rev. Brittany Talks a lot. I mean, there's so much diversity in the movie. There's so much, conversation about who's in, who's out. 00:21:18:05 - 00:21:18:23 Rev. Trudy That's right. 00:21:19:00 - 00:21:21:15 Rev. Brittany How the oppressed work together. 00:21:21:16 - 00:21:39:09 Rev. Trudy Yep. Diversity. Not a lot of white people. Enough, I mean. All the leads. Don't you think? I mean, except for the vampires, I mean, the Klan. Right. Well, in the Klan. 00:21:39:15 - 00:21:40:14 Rev. Brittany That's enough for me. 00:21:40:14 - 00:21:57:14 Rev. Trudy Well yep. Absolutely. It was. Yeah. But yes I loved seeing seeing black leads and the Chinese couple. Honestly, I think that's why this might not get an Academy Award. 00:21:57:16 - 00:21:58:12 Rev. Brittany I didn't say it. 00:21:58:14 - 00:22:13:06 Rev. Trudy And that would. That's a sad thing. And because it's so forthright with naming racism. I, that's sad to me. I'm going to be rooting for it. 00:22:13:10 - 00:22:27:09 Rev. Brittany Because it's an interesting like play right. That these black folks have come to this juke joint and created this space, carved out this space for themselves away from the racism of the day. 00:22:27:10 - 00:22:28:07 Rev. Trudy Right, right, right. 00:22:28:09 - 00:22:35:05 Rev. Brittany And then the night comes. And now they're fighting against vampires. Yeah. Right. 00:22:35:07 - 00:22:50:17 Rev. Brittany It feels as though the story is that they can't find peace anywhere. Right. Because something is always seeking to destroy them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, this music is their way of. The music is what drew the vampires to them. Right? 00:22:50:21 - 00:22:52:19 Rev. Trudy Yeah. And. 00:22:52:21 - 00:22:57:12 Rev. Brittany Yeah. So, it just speaks for, like, the complicated dynamic. 00:22:57:12 - 00:22:57:21 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:22:57:21 - 00:23:04:12 Rev. Brittany That oppression put on the hearts, the minds, and the souls of people. That's right. In the bodies of them as well. 00:23:04:15 - 00:23:25:14 Rev. Trudy I want to come back to that. But I, especially the music scene. But I want to come back. I interrupted you when you began to say there's so many different kinds of, I don't think you said it this way, power struggles, but dynamics, relational dynamics and, yeah, you started. The men. The women. 00:23:25:16 - 00:23:29:14 Rev. Trudy The Irish. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. 00:23:29:16 - 00:23:53:01 Rev. Brittany So, the vampire that, the main vampire that starts this, has an Irish accent. And I thought that that was important to this show because I think that, now I can't say this for sure, no, I'm not Ryan Coogler, but I think that there was this idea of using the Irish as a part of the conversation because they were also oppressed coming over to the Americas. 00:23:53:01 - 00:24:10:02 Rev. Brittany And we often hear that, you know, "such and such can't be racist because their grandfather was Irish" and da-da-da-da. And that's not the case. But it also shows how oppression impacts every person who is involved. 00:24:10:03 - 00:24:10:14 Rev. Trudy Right? 00:24:10:15 - 00:24:38:08 Rev. Brittany Right. No matter what your skin tone was, or whatever. But they were telling it, at least in my opinion, when I thought I'm like, "oh! oh!" You know. Yeah, the men and the women, of course. They're ,the women are these powerhouses with of knowledge and, you know, skill. And they're the ones who were like holding all of this ancestral memory and protecting the children and protecting the men and protecting each other. 00:24:38:10 - 00:24:48:20 Rev. Brittany And the men operate in a very patriarchal way with, like, the money and the brute. Right. You know, the need to protect. 00:24:49:18 - 00:24:54:18 Rev. Brittany Right. Right. So yeah, there are a lot of different dynamics. 00:24:54:18 - 00:25:02:22 Rev. Trudy And then there's the other one of the other main characters. I just lost her name. Who's passing for white. 00:25:03:00 - 00:25:15:00 Rev. Trudy But has some, colored blood. And there's that dynamic because she's not exactly belonging, but she is there, and yet she's there. 00:25:15:00 - 00:25:15:22 Rev. Brittany Mary! 00:25:16:01 - 00:25:39:20 Rev. Trudy Mary. That's right. It was little Mary. That's right, that's right. So you see just all sorts of questions of who belongs, who deserves to be there, who doesn't, who's being oppressed, and how deeply that oppression goes. How long has that been? All of that is at play in some of the most beautiful ways, centered around this music that is making everybody survive. 00:25:39:20 - 00:25:42:16 Rev. Brittany That's making everybody survive. 00:25:42:16 - 00:25:43:01 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:25:43:02 - 00:26:15:01 Rev. Brittany Yeah. Right. And the blues, essentially. And ragtime music. Right. Is this, I like, the ragtime music was like a genre of music at a very particular time during enslavement. After. Right after enslavement. That was folk. See, when American folk see, you know, not bluegrass, not blues, not gospel. Yeah, but it's own thing. But blues is kind of like a culmination of all of that. 00:26:15:02 - 00:26:41:04 Rev. Brittany Like, blues is ragtime music and it's gospel music and it's, you know, it has this American, you know, experience of life for black people at that time in the South. Yeah, not just in the South, but the South is really where those stories are harvested. And the depth of the music comes from. 00:26:41:06 - 00:26:44:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. We got to talk about the music scene. 00:26:44:07 - 00:26:45:03 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:26:45:05 - 00:27:12:18 Rev. Trudy There's a couple of them. But the first one is the memorable one. And it really illustrates the idea that those who can make really good and true music pierced the veil between past and present. And so, there's in the juke joint, before the vampires come, and they're playing just amazing music and everybody's dancing. And as you begin to ... there's camera moves around the room. 00:27:12:20 - 00:27:30:18 Rev. Trudy There are people who are misplaced in terms of the historical accuracy. It's an anachronism, right? Where you got a hip hop artist there, you've got, you know, an African, from 00:27:30:20 - 00:27:31:21 Rev. Brittany the Yerava tribe. 00:27:31:21 - 00:27:35:15 Rev. Trudy Right. That's right. And you see 00:27:35:15 - 00:27:36:09 Rev. Brittany the Chinese were in there, too. 00:27:36:09 - 00:28:07:22 Rev. Trudy The Chinese were in there, too. A modern day ballerina went across the dance floor. So, that piercing of time and even in the music itself, it began to branch off into different genres. Of hip hop and blues and jazz and it just was all there at once and it was such a beautiful celebration because you looked at it and you thought, everybody feels free. 00:28:08:00 - 00:28:28:06 Rev. Trudy In fact, at the very end at this, I don't think is part of the spoiler, but one of the characters says, "you know, up until the time the vampires came, it was the best day of my life." Right. And that music had played a huge part of that huge part. 00:28:28:06 - 00:28:39:23 Rev. Brittany Yeah. And I mean, I think about our faith in general, you know, hymns for us and as Christians. Yeah, a lot of the hymns are much older than we are. 00:28:39:23 - 00:28:56:00 Rev. Brittany That's for sure. Yeah. And when we sing those songs, "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" or, you know, "Amazing Grace." "Be Thou My Vision." You know, those to me, those hymns, and of course, when I think of, you know, Negro spirituals. 00:28:59:08 - 00:29:22:01 Rev. Brittany There's something about singing the songs that my ancestors have sung. Yeah, that remind me that I am not far from them. Yeah, right. Yeah. And there's this idea sometimes that, you know, in Christianity that there's this, you know, we don't believe in ancestral veneration. And like, you know, this idea of honoring your ancestors, not worshiping them, but honoring them. 00:29:22:01 - 00:29:51:10 Rev. Brittany But I don't think that that's true because Jesus tells us very specifically "do this in remembrance of me." Right. And so, every time I think that we sing a song that has been, you know, sung by the people who've come before us, there's a sense of remembering that we have and honoring them. Yeah. And so, I think that music has a way of, again, connecting us because the songs that we sing will be around for the next generation, and they'll take it and make it their own and sing it the way that they do. 00:29:51:10 - 00:29:59:03 Rev. Brittany But there's something, there's something about the tradition of singing the songs that have been sung before you. That's right. 00:29:59:03 - 00:30:32:10 Rev. Trudy That's right. I'm going to improve my statement on that. I said earlier about it, religious institutions and you know who needs them? This is the number one thing I think religious institutions have to offer. And that is the depository of that tradition. Some of it's not good, of course. Right. But the depository of all of the things that have happened before us that provide that connection to our ancestors, all of the hymns. 00:30:32:10 - 00:30:33:05 Rev. Brittany Absolutely. 00:30:33:05 - 00:30:36:09 Rev. Trudy And the new ones and the new ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:30:36:10 - 00:30:42:04 Rev. Brittany It's a, I mean, I think that music is very sacred. 00:30:42:06 - 00:30:54:18 Rev. Brittany Because like you, like, I just, that it speaks across time and space. Yeah. Right. They happen at a very particular time in a very particular reason. But you know. Right. "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is Mine." That's not just a word. Right. 00:30:54:18 - 00:30:55:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:30:55:06 - 00:31:07:22 Rev. Brittany People have been denied. You know, enslaved people were denied the idea that they were human, let alone the idea that they could actually be Christians. Right? So no, no, no, I'm going to tell you, you know, blessed assurance, Jesus is mine. 00:31:07:22 - 00:31:08:09 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:31:08:13 - 00:31:29:03 Rev. Brittany That Jesus is a part of me too, right? You know, this is claiming and naming. And I think that that's what these folks are trying to do in creating this music that spoke to not only their experiences today, but we're speaking to the folks who had carved the way for them to be able to have a juke joint. 00:31:29:04 - 00:31:38:06 Rev. Brittany Right. And then hopefully they're carving out this space of a juke joint of this, you know, this sacred holy space for them to be. 00:31:38:08 - 00:31:42:03 Rev. Brittany Would also carry the next generation forward in different ways. 00:31:42:03 - 00:32:06:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. I'm going to talk a little bit about the end. If we're okay at that point. Yep. So, I heard it say about this movie, that black music attracts white vampires. And at the end of the movie, the KKK shows up. It's the next morning. The— 00:32:06:08 - 00:32:09:21 Rev. Brittany Can I say why, the vampire part? 00:32:09:21 - 00:32:10:12 Rev. Trudy Okay. 00:32:10:16 - 00:32:16:01 Rev. Brittany I think that there's something about black people creating something, and then white people calling it their own. 00:32:16:03 - 00:32:16:11 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:32:16:16 - 00:32:17:05 Rev. Brittany Continue. 00:32:17:11 - 00:32:17:20 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:32:17:21 - 00:32:19:00 Rev. Brittany That was my note. There you go. 00:32:19:00 - 00:32:46:06 Rev. Trudy So the KKK come and it's apparent that the KKK, the one who owns that building and sold it to the man for it to be a juke joint, had done that before. And was planning on doing it again. And they came. The KKK came to kill everybody. That's not exactly what happened. 00:32:46:08 - 00:33:02:16 Rev. Trudy That's a ... that's just horrible. But we know that happens. I want to say one more thing about the end. In another scene. And this is a spoiler alert. Sammy. He's old. He's in 1996 or something. 00:33:02:17 - 00:33:03:07 Rev. Brittany 92. I remember it. 00:33:03:07 - 00:33:13:20 Rev. Trudy Okay. And you were two. And he comes. He's at a bar and two of the vampires, Stack and Mary come. 00:33:13:22 - 00:33:44:12 Rev. Trudy Now, earlier in the film, we think that Stack got killed by Smoke. By Smoke? But they come in, sit next to Sammy. They recognize each other. They came for him. And Stack says "my brother made us promise to leave you alone." And he offers, "well, we can take you out of your misery of life, but still live forever." 00:33:44:18 - 00:34:01:00 Rev. Trudy Right. And he says, "no, thank you." That's a scene, for me, that says love conquers. Love conquers. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We, this is good! 00:34:01:02 - 00:34:19:06 Rev. Brittany I'd talk about this all day long. With the last thing that I will say is that as the vampires, Mary and Stack, are walking out of the bar, Stack turns around and I can see that he's wearing a chain. Right? He's like in the hip hop era of fashion, and he has on a gold chain. 00:34:19:11 - 00:34:40:12 Rev. Brittany And there's a Jesus pendant on the chain. Yeah. And there's this. That's the idea that he has to fit into the world now, right? As a normal person and what not. What other way to do that, then? To be a part of the church, right? Or to have this claim to Christianity. But I also think that it's even deeper than that. 00:34:40:12 - 00:34:49:00 Rev. Brittany Is that there was something about their faith. Yeah. Even as vampires, that still carry them forward. 00:34:49:00 - 00:34:50:08 Rev. Trudy They all said the Lord's Prayer. 00:34:50:08 - 00:34:52:01 Rev. Brittany They all said the Lord's Prayer together. 00:34:52:01 - 00:34:52:09 Rev. Trudy Yes. 00:34:52:10 - 00:35:04:08 Rev. Brittany Yeah. So, I think that that, for me, is it, to me, shows that even in the midst of it all evil, racism, oppression, despair, death. 00:35:04:11 - 00:35:04:20 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:35:04:20 - 00:35:07:00 Rev. Brittany That nothing will separate us from the love of God. 00:35:07:01 - 00:35:32:01 Rev. Trudy There it is. It's a great movie. Go see it. Thank you for listening. We'll hope to catch you another time. Bye. This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit FUMCSD.org.