00:00:02:21 - 00:00:30:23 Rev. Trudy Welcome back to Real Theology. That's R-E-E-L Theology. Where you hear the perspectives of these pastors on some of the movies that are in the theater. And today I'm with Reverend Hannah. Thank you, Hannah for watching this. The movie that we're talking about is Train Dreams. And it is a movie that I don't even know if it made it to the theaters where we live. 00:00:30:23 - 00:00:49:15 Rev. Trudy Maybe it did. I watched it on the live stream, and it was a very quiet film, but it made one of the nominations for an Academy Award for Best Picture. And so, that's when I looked at it, and I fell in love with this movie. 00:00:49:15 - 00:00:50:15 Rev. Hannah Yes, the artist in in you! 00:00:50:15 - 00:01:18:01 Rev. Trudy Oh man! This movie, it's not a short movie. And it's a very slow-paced movie. Simple movie. But, boy, you don't know this. That the time is taking so long, right? I think the pace is really beautiful. The soundtrack, especially at the beginning, it sets the tone for the whole movie. 00:01:18:02 - 00:01:39:21 Rev. Trudy The soundtrack is nothing but bird calls and wind blowing and water running. You have a narrator that helps you make transitions throughout the whole storyline. And the narrator is just a very calm, unhurried voice that tells you just what's happening. You know? Yes. That's right. 00:01:39:21 - 00:02:04:04 Rev. Hannah And the scene and the music and the narrator. I want to say the beauty of empty spaces. Yeah. So, he wasn't talking the whole time. There were 8 minutes that are without any words. There are scenes that have no movement. There was music that was calm. Yeah. And sorry. And. Yeah, I love them. 00:02:04:05 - 00:02:31:15 Rev. Trudy It sounds like you would fall asleep. But I encourage you. You should. You should watch it if you haven't already. Roger Ebert said “you don't just watch; you breathe it in.” And that's what I felt myself doing. And as I looked at this movie, I think it really is about the meaning of life. It starts with one man, Robert Grenier, who was an orphaned at six. 00:02:31:17 - 00:02:49:19 Rev. Trudy And put on the train by himself to go to Idaho. And he lived his life around there. He became a logger and a railroad worker for a time. He got married, had a child, and he lived life. And this movie shows that life is painful. 00:02:49:20 - 00:03:04:12 Rev. Hannah Yes. And underneath the painful life was the social background. Socio economic background where everyone at that time was going through—most commoners. 00:03:04:12 - 00:03:21:00 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. You just struggled to find jobs doing whatever they could. You know, like Robert, he worked for the logging companies and the railroad company, and he would go wherever the work was, and it would take him all over the West. 00:03:21:00 - 00:03:28:03 Rev. Hannah And he couldn't fully enjoy his family life. Yeah. Life that he was making the money for. Yeah. 00:03:28:05 - 00:03:52:03 Rev. Trudy You know, that's one of the things. This movie is set in a different era. And I just began to just marvel at what folks of that era had to survive. Right. And how they lived, the simplicity of what they lived. And it got me wondering about whether or not we've become too spoiled. 00:03:52:05 - 00:03:53:08 Rev. Hannah You know. 00:03:53:08 - 00:04:03:06 Rev. Trudy Can we handle some of the hardship that our ancestors had to live through? Could we do that now? I don't know. I think we're pretty soft in that respect. 00:04:03:10 - 00:04:08:07 Rev. Hannah It becomes easier. There are parallels but much smaller scale. 00:04:08:08 - 00:04:25:18 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. And it made me also wonder if the simplicity of that time. No matter how hard, if that didn't make things more easily recognized as important. 00:04:25:22 - 00:04:46:18 Rev. Hannah Yes. And Robert used the words beautiful and beauty. Yeah. Often, despite his rough life. As he was laying down on the green with his wife and baby. Yeah. Yeah, it was quiet, but everything seemed to be more beautiful. And they were enjoying those moments in between. That's right. Short lived. 00:04:46:18 - 00:05:02:02 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's right, that's right. Yeah. The pain that he had to go through. I mean, it starts with him being orphaned, and I can't imagine putting a six-year-old on the train, my word! 00:05:02:02 - 00:05:04:12 Rev. Hannah Without much instructions. 00:05:04:12 - 00:05:26:16 Rev. Trudy Or he didn't know what happened to his parents. He was never told. And to have him come out so fairly solid as a man with that much trauma. Crazy. But there's that. They lived at the time when, you know, they lived by candlelight. They would, they lived in a log home. 00:05:26:16 - 00:05:51:02 Rev. Trudy Right. And there are scenes when they're inside, at dinner, having dinner, or whatever. But you see the cold breath. And they're in the room. Right. That, in itself, was tough. And then his work as a logger, working in the lumber yards or cutting down trees, killed people all the time. 00:05:51:02 - 00:06:12:13 Rev. Trudy There were no safety regulations or insurance. Right. Well, right. Or insurance. Then he talks about being a young boy as well. And watching in his hometown the mass deportation of hundreds of Chinese workers. He makes this phrase, “he was bothered by the casualness of the violence.” 00:06:12:15 - 00:06:22:17 Rev. Hannah Right. Tough times and the casualness of violence continued to show up in different forms. Right. The movie. 00:06:22:19 - 00:06:42:07 Rev. Trudy That's right. And in fact, there's a significant moment when one of his coworkers, on the railroad, a Chinese young boy, gets murdered. And, you know, just dragged away from the work they were doing and thrown off the bridge into roaring rapids. And yeah. 00:06:42:11 - 00:07:00:20 Rev. Hannah And everyone was just silent. There was a lot of moments when all these people who were making their ends meet. Yeah. Had to be bystanders. Yeah. Yeah. Just watch things happen. That's right. That's right. Even if it's tragic. Yeah. 00:07:00:22 - 00:07:08:21 Rev. Trudy And he did, you know, Robert did, as they were dragging this Chinese man away, he did say “What he do? What he do?” 00:07:08:22 - 00:07:10:05 Rev. Hannah Right. He was the only one. 00:07:10:05 - 00:07:27:04 Rev. Trudy And. Yeah. He was the only one. And he did try and go to him and pull him away from being dragged away. And the man kicked him. Which was, I thought was interesting. I had to watch it twice. Did he kick him? Why didn't he want them to help? I don't. It was an interesting scene. 00:07:27:06 - 00:07:40:23 Rev. Trudy But the young man appears as a ghost. Right. Throughout the movie. And it gets Robert to believe that punishment is following him. 00:07:41:00 - 00:08:01:23 Rev. Hannah Right. And this man doesn't say a word or cause him any guilt or shame. He just sits there with blank eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leaving it up to Robert's imagination. Right. So, it's ... He has the inner voice that he gets out of this Chinese man's face. Yeah. 00:08:02:00 - 00:08:32:02 Rev. Trudy It went with them forever. Yeah. So, there's all that, all that pain of watching. And then, the major pain of the movie—Spoiler alert—A fire runs through the area where his wife and daughter are. And he is just coming home from having worked as a logger. And he comes in through the fire trying to find, you know, the home, his family. 00:08:32:04 - 00:08:47:17 Rev. Trudy And, and he can't. And he lives with that grief after the fire is gone out, he stays in that spot and that grief is so overwhelming. And you can see it in in the film. 00:08:47:18 - 00:09:15:11 Rev. Hannah Yes. And there was a little interesting connection that I caught. May not have been the creator's intention. He was making the money to support his family by logging. And the house. The log house. Yeah. Was caught by the fire in the forest. Yeah. Yeah. So, they were both featuring the trees that were supposed to be life giving. 00:09:15:12 - 00:09:34:10 Rev. Hannah Yeah. But one consumed. Yeah. His beloved. Yeah. And the other one was keeping him alive and continuing to introduce him to many other truths and family members. Yeah. And widening his worldview for this man who had never been to. Right. 00:09:34:10 - 00:09:56:12 Rev. Trudy Right. And he never been very vocal. And that's really, that's really the joy of this movie. After kind of establishing there's going to be pain and tough ones. It's the relationships that he has. And we see snippets of, little vignettes, really, of the people who come into his life. And that's really the joy of the movie. First of all, his wife. 00:09:56:13 - 00:10:14:04 Rev. Trudy Right. You mentioned him laying in the grass and saying it's all beautiful. And, you know, which, what does she say? Her, the wife, Gladys says, “Right now, I could just about understand everything there is.” 00:10:14:06 - 00:10:23:17 Rev. Trudy Yeah. And she's just lying in the grass. With nature all around. With the one she loves. 00:10:23:18 - 00:10:33:22 Rev. Hannah So, there is a deeper awareness and awakening in her. Yeah. As she expands her relationship with this lover. 00:10:33:22 - 00:10:44:15 Rev. Hannah And then Robert says something funny. It might be relevant to where you're heading. But he had said something about that church and religion didn’t seem so bad after meeting Gladys. 00:10:44:15 - 00:10:52:00 Rev. Trudy That's right, that's right. She was a churchgoer. Yes. Yeah. That's right. 00:10:52:02 - 00:10:54:05 Rev. Hannah So, she expanded his perspective and horizon a little bit. 00:10:54:09 - 00:11:18:10 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's a thread in this movie, too, is just the searching for something of meaning, to understand it all, and to find what's important. Which, so, it's a little ironic, as I look at it and say, “Oh, it was so easy for them. To see as they're lying by this wonderful running brook, that everything is beautiful and all makes sense.” 00:11:18:15 - 00:11:24:10 Rev. Trudy Because, sure, if I were there, I would believe it. But I live in the modern world. Maybe. Maybe not. 00:11:24:12 - 00:11:26:23 Rev. Hannah Well, think about what's next. 00:11:27:01 - 00:11:59:04 Rev. Trudy That's right. Exactly. But they were still in that mode, here in particular. You know what is the meaning of life? What are we here for? And he heard here's more ideas about what that looks like with the people he meets. Right. With the people he meets. He's got his wife. The workers. They were all people coming and going, as you said, going where the work dictated. 00:11:59:04 - 00:12:22:18 Rev. Trudy But they left a lasting impression. Talks about the man that he worked with for two months and he never said a single word. Right. Or the man who quoted scripture as if he was there. Right. They made an impact on him. But the one I really like most is Arn Peeples. 00:12:22:19 - 00:12:25:23 Rev. Trudy He was. Arn Peeples. Peeples. Yeah. 00:12:25:23 - 00:12:27:11 Rev. Hannah He was my favorite too. 00:12:27:12 - 00:12:30:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. He did not stop talking. 00:12:30:08 - 00:12:31:04 Rev. Hannah No. 00:12:31:06 - 00:12:42:21 Rev. Trudy And they did what they say. It did the very specific job. He was in charge of blowing up the explosives. Explosives? Yeah. Right. And so, every once in a while, that's what he would do. 00:12:42:21 - 00:12:44:00 Rev. Hannah And sometimes it worked. 00:12:44:00 - 00:13:06:17 Rev. Trudy Sometimes it didn't. That's right. But he talked nonstop. Yeah. And he said some really beautiful snippets. He said, you know when they were finishing up a job, “Where are you going?” You know. And: “Do you have family somewhere?” And the answer is, “My family is everywhere there's a smiling face. Never been somewhere where it didn't have family there.” 00:13:06:17 - 00:13:26:11 Rev. Trudy And then he says, “Except Kansas. That state is a collection of savage lunatics.” I was cracking up. But what I thought was really funny, was yes, because Robert cracked up when he said that. And Arn was surprised that he laughed. You know, it's like, no, I'm telling the truth. 00:13:26:14 - 00:13:27:06 Rev. Hannah But Robert never went to Kansas. 00:13:27:06 - 00:13:42:10 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Right. He had no clue. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, he was a wonderful source of inspiration. Kind of a, one who cared about the forests. 00:13:42:12 - 00:13:45:18 Rev. Trudy In ways that seemed present. 00:13:45:20 - 00:14:11:22 Rev. Hannah I had a pastor whose complement was always, “He has a good perspectives.” Or something. “He has a little narrow perspective.” Right. This man had a good perspective. The sees a wide variety of nature and all the creatures on it. Yeah. As part of his interconnected world. That's right. And he sees the history in a long term. 00:14:11:23 - 00:14:20:05 Rev. Hannah Yeah. Thousands of years. Yeah. And honors and values those years that those trees that they were cutting had lived. 00:14:20:11 - 00:14:26:03 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, he says “it upsets a man's soul, cutting down the tree.” 00:14:26:03 - 00:14:27:06 Rev. Hannah Souls. 00:14:27:06 - 00:14:30:21 Rev. Trudy “Whether you recognize it or not.” 00:14:30:23 - 00:14:34:15 Rev. Hannah Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:34:17 - 00:14:52:09 Rev. Trudy The other relationship I really appreciate, too, is, Ignatius Jack, a Native American who was the shopkeeper? Near their home. He starts off being just the shopkeeper and you know, over time, he becomes the one that saves Robert in his grief. 00:14:52:09 - 00:14:59:19 Rev. Hannah Yes. Yeah. He was the pastoral care giver. The soul healer. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:59:21 - 00:15:25:11 Rev. Trudy Only by being there. Yes. Just by being there. Just by coming out of town to the place where he lived. Yeah. Finding him in the middle of the spot where his house would have been. You know, having slept there, waiting for their family to return. And he just appears and says, “Hello, Robert. Are you hungry?” 00:15:25:13 - 00:15:38:07 Rev. Trudy “Let's take a walk.” And that's about all he said. Yes. Right. In the movie. But that brought him. He walked with him back to life. Yes. 00:15:38:09 - 00:16:15:07 Rev. Hannah This friend, was not too much talker. Yeah. He just, like you said, by being there. Being present. Yeah. He was being fully present with whoever was his customer. Yeah. And paid attention to what's on their face and tried to read their hearts. Yeah. Out of their interactions. Transactions. Right. So, you got the metaphor in your notes, and I thought about “who's my neighbor” as I watch this man interact. 00:16:15:07 - 00:16:15:18 Rev. Hannah Right. 00:16:15:19 - 00:16:39:18 Rev. Trudy Exactly. Yeah. A little bit of a Samaritan is for that time, you know, the relationship between, white settlers, you know, white people and Native Americans. Not so good ... and yet, he is the one that you. And all the others in town, they're talking about. Yes. I think there were several people who came to visit Robert and said, “You know, they're talking about,” you know. “What are they saying about me?” 00:16:39:18 - 00:16:49:18 Rev. Trudy “Well, you know, you're different.” You know. And that, I guess, I have to appreciate the way he honored his grief. 00:16:49:20 - 00:17:16:15 Rev. Trudy Clearly in a time when grief was a common thing and it didn't, I mean, you just moved on. In fact, even with Ignatius Jack, he finally breaks down and sobs, realizing that they aren't coming back. And he immediately after kind of catching control of his sobbing, immediately Robert says, “I don't know what came over me.” 00:17:16:17 - 00:17:29:09 Rev. Trudy And I'm like, I do! I know. You lost your wife and your daughter. Oh my gosh, you know. But, but in that time and space, he somehow just honored that Robert did still. 00:17:29:09 - 00:17:58:18 Rev. Hannah Yeah. Somehow, he redeemed Robert. Robert was living in the past, always seeing the ghosts of his wife and daughter and the past and lodging trauma. Yeah. And by being present, this friend was able to bring him to his today. Yeah. Open up his eyes to see the reality. Yeah. With a different heart in his. Yeah. Soul? 00:17:58:19 - 00:18:02:08 Rev. Hannah Yeah. And face it. 00:18:02:10 - 00:18:07:15 Rev. Trudy At one point he says, “You know, I've been waiting so long I kind of forgotten what I've been waiting for.” 00:18:07:17 - 00:18:08:22 Rev. Hannah Right. 00:18:09:00 - 00:18:14:22 Rev. Trudy So that life came back to him and then he meets another character. Yes. Another relationship in this life. 00:18:14:23 - 00:18:17:17 Rev. Hannah Claire, are you talking about? Claire? 00:18:17:19 - 00:18:41:01 Rev. Trudy Oh, yeah. Claire. Just the common grief kind of created a little bit of bond. She had lost her husband. And she loved the forest. And I mean, there was nothing romantic there, but just the companionship of having someone who is just a little bit different. Yes. 00:18:41:06 - 00:18:59:00 Rev. Hannah It was not about replacing his past with what's coming up next. Yeah. It was more about deeper connection. Yeah. With people. Yeah. Or experiencing similar grief. Yeah. And that connects. 00:18:59:02 - 00:19:23:15 Rev. Trudy Exactly. I think there's also a spiritual connection that we see in this movie. Right. And obviously not just between people to people, not just, you know, the presence of God in these horrible situations. But that appeared in the movie with him dreaming. First of all, kind of anticipating the fire that might happen. 00:19:23:17 - 00:19:45:16 Rev. Trudy That did actually happen. Had dreams about that. And then after his family is killed, he hears their voices. You know, we've already said he saw the ghost of the Chinese man. There's some spiritual layer that was accessible to him in this story. 00:19:45:18 - 00:20:18:19 Rev. Hannah Yes. And those interconnectedness with the spiritual sphere or nature or whatever was surrounding him and holding him or sustaining him. Yeah. The more he's aware of those connections, the more redeemed he became in his heart from his wounds. Yeah. From his grief. And grief didn't resolve all the past. Right. But those grief finally shaped him to become who he was becoming. 00:20:18:20 - 00:20:21:08 Rev. Hannah Right. Right. Right. 00:20:21:10 - 00:20:52:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. I think that spirituality, you know, in a simpler time, it's a little bit easier to, I don't know, I think it's all easier than where we are now. Maybe not. That's such a ... they had less distractions. That's exactly what I mean. Let's say that. Right. But. Yeah, but it does remind me, you know, that whole connection to the spirituality, the message that we might hear, seeing the ghosts, hearing the voices, or whatever it is. 00:20:52:08 - 00:21:14:14 Rev. Trudy I remember at the start of my sabbatical when I was looking at four months, not doing anything. I remember feeling God's presence in something very ordinary, in such a powerful and just out of the blue way, and kind of like the ghost just showed up, or I heard the voice of my dead family. And it … 00:21:14:14 - 00:21:20:18 Rev. Trudy yeah. When we have too many distractions. Yes. That we're disconnected to the natural world. And the spiritual world. 00:21:20:18 - 00:21:36:00 Rev. Hannah Yes. And with those restrictions, we created this culture of go, go, go all the time. Yeah. Not pausing enough to look back and think about the meanings of life. 00:21:36:02 - 00:21:58:23 Rev. Trudy One of the more—one of the best parts of this movie, I think, were when there were those flashback scenes of him and his family, him and his daughter, him and his wife, in happier times. You know, they just carried such impact. Lots of times there was no plot to that at all other than here's a flashback. 00:21:59:01 - 00:22:36:17 Rev. Trudy No plot, no dialog. It was just this memory of watching your child play in the water by your house. Right. And that kind of, for me, reminds me or makes me think that connection to that spiritual world ... that's when you're going to value those moments in the moment. And they will continue to impress upon you and call you back to what's important as you leave, as you move through life and all of its pain. 00:22:36:19 - 00:22:46:18 Rev. Hannah Right. Yes. And there is pause and simplicity and the backdrop of all those moments. 00:22:46:19 - 00:23:15:01 Rev. Trudy Honestly, the ending I thought was you know beautiful! Oh my God I had to watch it twice. Right. Yes. I should, we should, probably not tell them about the … you'll have to watch it okay. Watch it. But he's up in an airplane. And you know, I mean, think about all that he had gone through in his life, all the things that they had invented, and their plane would be one of them. 00:23:15:01 - 00:23:42:06 Rev. Trudy Right. He was, he got up in an airplane, and as he's flying above the ground, he saw it all and he saw it all as beautiful. And then, as it comes back to the time when he's about to die, the narrator says, or maybe has he passed? And the narrator says, this is, you know, well, he says: “Robert Granger died in his sleep.” 00:23:42:07 - 00:24:06:18 Rev. Trudy “His life ended as quietly as it had begun. He never purchased a firearm or spoken into a telephone. No parents, no heirs. But on that spring day, in the airplane, when he misplaced all sense of up and down”—because the airplane was doing, the pilot was moving around, when you place displaced, misplaced all sense of up and down— 00:24:06:20 - 00:24:19:06 Rev. Trudy “He felt at last connected to it all.” And it reminds me all to the times throughout the movies when there was those moments when this is beautiful. 00:24:19:08 - 00:24:23:23 Rev. Trudy At Arne's death. This is beautiful. What's beautiful. 00:24:24:01 - 00:24:28:05 Rev. Hannah All of it. All of it. Right. 00:24:28:06 - 00:24:29:21 Rev. Trudy That just gave me goosebumps. 00:24:30:02 - 00:25:04:03 Rev. Hannah Yes. And that was my one of my favorite moments to talk about. His transition into another life. Without showing the real things that's happening. But on a plane going into the sky, flying to the sky reminded me of the ascension scene or something transitioning into another world. And again, the theme of beauty surfaced in this. 00:25:04:05 - 00:25:41:15 Rev. Hannah And I wondered if the screenwriter had education in process theology. So, process theology shifts the good and evil into beauty. Yeah. Oh, goodness. Intellectual beauty. Emotional beauty. Spiritual beauty. Physical beauty. And he saw the beauty in his rough life. Yeah. Yeah. And found peace and serenity as he transitioned. So, it ended beautifully. And it was leaving us good taste. 00:25:42:23 - 00:26:07:04 Rev. Trudy And the comment about being misplaced with a sense of up and down and in the context of looking back over your life. It makes me wonder if part of the beauty that we don't always pay attention to is the way in which we might be tumbling and going around in all different experiences of life. But God's hand. 00:26:07:04 - 00:26:07:17 Rev. Hannah Yes. 00:26:07:19 - 00:26:08:15 Rev. Trudy Holds us. 00:26:08:16 - 00:26:09:13 Rev. Hannah Yes. 00:26:09:15 - 00:26:11:00 Rev. Trudy Right. Through it all. 00:26:11:03 - 00:26:41:00 Rev. Hannah Yes. Right. And. Yes. And that's when I was reminded once again, we think about our life in a lineal way. Yeah. But in this life, he was going up and down. Yeah. And carried by God's hands. Spiral. Sometimes down and sometimes upside and into a direction. Yeah. And that's when he felt connected to all. To all of it. 00:26:41:00 - 00:26:43:20 Rev. Hannah Yeah. Yeah. 00:26:43:22 - 00:26:47:02 Rev. Trudy So, I don't know, I got the meaning of life out of this movie. 00:26:47:04 - 00:26:50:20 Rev. Hannah Me too. And mystery, beauty and … 00:26:50:20 - 00:26:52:11 Rev. Trudy Beauty. And to slow down. 00:26:52:12 - 00:27:01:23 Rev. Hannah Yes. Slow down. And the historical changes. It has a lot more global ethics flavor to it. 00:27:02:01 - 00:27:28:03 Rev. Trudy Yeah. For sure, for sure. That is our thoughts on Train Dreams. I hope you've enjoyed hearing as a muse about this movie that clearly we both enjoy very much. We will see you the next time we have a new movie to share with you. I hope you'll join us again. Thanks. This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. 00:27:28:05 - 00:27:39:11 Rev. Trudy To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org.