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You probably know already that I have a lot of opinions, and my colleagues also have a lot of opinions. We give you our perspectives weekly, and I have asked my colleagues to come into the studio to talk about some more things where we can offer our perspectives. Specifically, I want to talk about films. I want to talk about movies.

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It's Academy Award season, so we've decided to give you our perspective on some of the movies that we've been seeing this year. So, I'm glad you're here for this very special series of podcasts. All around Reel – R-E-E-L. Right. And Theology. Hi, Hannah. Hi. You ready for this? I am ready. I am so glad you decided that you've agreed to do this.

00:00:53:09 - 00:01:19:01
Yes. And I actually got excited about what you did. Yes. You came up with our very first film to talk about KPop Demon Hunters. Yeah. I didn't watch it until we had to do this. Because when everyone else is watching the same movie, I check out. Okay. You don't follow the lines to the theater, do you know? I wait until it calms down a little bit.

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Well, I have to confess, I was a little surprised you suggested this movie because, you know, I was looking at the real artsy, the deep, you know, movies, and. And you said, wait a second, KPop Demon Hunters. It's got some theology there. So I'm really excited to have you lead us through what you see in this movie. Yes.

00:01:38:04 - 00:02:07:23
I got inspired to watch this because I was having a conversation with my theological colleagues who were recommending this movie. “This is a religious movie.” They said. Okay, so this film looks fun and flashy and chaotic on the surface, but when you look at the contents of it, underneath it, it's a story about shame, identity, belonging, redemption and healing.

00:02:08:00 - 00:02:36:14
Yeah. Yeah. And it asks a deep spiritual question. What do we do with the parts of us that we don't like and we've been taught to hide. Yeah. That's certainly what the main characters, the Huntrix, the three young ladies who are singing. They're singing so that they can create a Honmun.

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Honmun. Honmun. That is a protective aura, maybe? Shield over all of the earth so that the demons don't get them. Right. That's true. And they. And they seem to do that. Yes. Okay. And their voice comes from three different parts. And they cannot sing without one of them. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Rumi's voice starts cracking. Yep. They they can't do it withou t her.

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So it brings perfect harmony and a chorus together. And so these three ladies, particularly Rumi. Have secrets? Yes. Yeah. Before going there, I ... you just. Yeah. Sparked something else that I wasn't thinking about here today. That's what these these podcasts do. Right. Tell me, how are we looking? Yeah. Honmun. So if I can use my basic Korean language translation. It's better than mine!

00:03:37:06 - 00:04:06:16
Sounds like the door of the spirits. That's what the word sounds like. Okay hon means the spirit souls. Okay. Mun means door. Yeah. Yeah. So they close the door to the demon spirits. Yes. So, what were you asking before that? Well, Rumi. Rumi is hiding a secret. Yes. She's got the patterns that signify whether or not you're a demon.

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Yes. Right. So there are two separate worlds. Yeah. The demons. And demon hunters. Okay. And they were supposed to be binary. Either purely evil or purely good. Okay. But one of the trio was born out of a demon father and a hunter mother. Okay. So she had some of the patterns on her body.

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Yeah. And she grew up hiding. Hiding them? Yeah. Yeah. So, her parents died when she was born. And so, it was one of her mother's friend who adopted her and raised her. And she kept on saying: “Honey, try harder. Oh, these will disappear. The patterns will go away if you just try harder.” Does that ever work?

00:05:00:12 - 00:05:27:03
No. So she, throughout her entire life, up to this point of singing with the other two girls, she was wearing long sleeves and hiding those. Yeah. And trying to shake off those patterns by singing. Yeah. Shake off the patterns. Bye bye. Singing the song that would create the Honmun that would protect everybody. And then she would be redeemed, too.

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So she wasn't going to accept the patterns, as they were, but she was going to work awfully hard to try and get rid of them in a way that may or may not be successful? Yes. So. Yes. Yeah. She's. You got it. She's joining in the singing of the three, which means this ... which signify to me,

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a community. Yeah. This sings hymns together. Oh, wow. Okay! One part of the movie says music connects us all. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, they were connecting together. And it symbolized relational love. Yeah. Yeah. And that was going to save everyone. Yes. Including Rumi, and the demons, and those who were shadowed by demons.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's theology. That's theology. That'll work, you know. Relationships, the relational nature of community, that is focused on singing hymns to be literal in a sense. That will keep a lot of demons at bay. Yes. And for the healing of those who are partially patterned. Yeah. Okay. And gave me some hope that Rumi as part of the trio was covered with those patterns.

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Even if we appear to be good. Yeah. We all carry those shadows. Well, yeah. Towards the end of the movie, her other two friends begin to explore what they are ashamed of. What they don't like about themselves. And what sometimes they can try and overcompensate for and to ignore. But they were owning it at the end.

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Yes. And they didn't have the pattern. Yes. But they, you know, nothing that they were trying to fix could actually be seen. But they felt it and it was a characteristic they wanted to get rid of. Yes. Yes. That themselves that actually brings a good idea about we cannot be perfectly good or perfectly evil. We all have those mixture of goodness and badness in us.

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Yeah. Whether they show in visible marks or not. Right. And the other friends didn't have that but they started owning their shadows. Yeah. Their self-hatred and rejection of themselves. Yeah. So owning. It's like repentance. Yeah. In religious theme that you start naming your own vices and your own shortfalls. Right. I wrote down the quote. Rumi at some point says “we can't fix it if we never face it.”

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Right. Yes. Yeah. Can that be a good sermon title? Well, there you go. There you go. You know what, it makes me think of a book that I have and, a nice little book on sin. Right. And the cover of it I love. It's a picture of a man who is looking into the mirror.

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And we see the back of his head as he's looking in the mirror. But what he sees is the back of his head, too, on for eternity, like in the mirrors. And the name of the book is called “I Told Me So.” Right. So it's the idea that we have a hard time facing ourselves. We have a hard time really looking in that mirror, and we can tell ourselves something that may or may not be actually true.

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Yes. And seen in the mirror. And how often are we coming to the church? And – sorry about bringing church – coming to the church. It's bound to happen. We're clergy! Covering ourselves up like Rumi did. Revealing her own weaknesses and her own self to her closest friends and colleagues. And pretending that everything is all good.

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But I had another story. A man used to drive to through country roads to go to church. And he would say that people along the route and the farms along the route would prop up their dead chickens. That became the phrase he used about covering up, putting on a good front acting. And so everything's perfect.

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And “I have no flaws at all.” Right. That doesn't happen in the church, does it? Really? I mean, yeah, hopefully not so much anymore, but there ... I mean, we all do. We all have that ability to kind of say, “I don't want people to see me as I really am.” But to bring that into church is really ... is hard.

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Because if you can't face it. To fix it in church with God at your side, with people around you, to be thinking about being better humans, too ... I don't know. I don't know where you can do that. Yes. And that has been my own personal journey from ... I used those phrase “from saving face to saving grace.”

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And I used to try so hard to save my face, to cover up like Rumi did. Yeah. Until I began to lean heavily on the saving grace. Yeah. The it's okay to bring my whole self. And that's how I started sharing my vulnerable moments from the pulpit. Nice. Yeah. And that also has been a evolutionary process of Christianity, that at one point, just like this movie, like the Gwi-Ma we try to ... um ... – The Gwi-Ma, can you say a little bit more about who that is?

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Yes. Gwi-Ma was transliterated in the movie. It's a Korean word, Gwi-Ma. It's a flipping, flipped word from Ma-Gwi. Gwi-Ma. Ma-Gwi. You just flipped the order of the wording. Yeah. And by saying so, they were meaning the Devil or Satan. Okay. Gwi-Ma. Gwi-Ma. And Gwi-Ma is the the the one who is sucking the soul. Yes. Out of those who would then be demons.

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Yes. The dark underworld. Yeah. King. The king. That rules those people who live with their shame. Yeah. And those who are drawn to him. Yeah. And, what else was I thinking? Sorry. I wanted to make sure our listeners might know who that is. Yes. Yes. Then I would have forgotten. Okay. This devil was speaking to everyone and proving this idea of causing a shame that you're not good enough.

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That's right. Yeah. You abandoned your family. Yeah. And constantly bringing the guilt and shame from the past experiences and throughout generations. Yeah. All those. Yeah. Denials. Yeah. And Rumi kept saying, especially to the one young other main character, Jinu. Yeah. Yeah. One of the Saja Boys. There you go. One of the Saja Boys.

00:12:57:01 - 00:13:17:22
Yeah. Also part demon. Might want to say a little bit more about that in a minute, but Rumi was always saying it was a mistake. He would, he would weigh on all the things that made him not good enough or not enough of anything. And she would say “it's a mistake.” “It's a mistake.” That invitation: “Get over it.”

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“That's not who you are.” Right. Yeah. We have a hard time doing that. Yes. And that mistake actually pressured him for generations like it was during the Joseon Dynasty when there was a king. And he was a poor man who was gifted with music. So he was recruited by the king's palace. Okay.

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To sing for the king and play for the king. Okay. And he became a little richer and, like, got more famous. And that's where he abandoned his poor family. Yeah. And close the door. And since then, he lived in that shame and guilt forever. Yeah. And so, that's what happens when you're tempted with greed fame.

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And all of that. You. Yeah. Failed to care for your families. Yeah. What actually motivated you to become more affluent? Right. Right. It's the greed that takes you away from community. Yes. And all of those other things that put you in a bad relationship to the community in some way,

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I think cause you isolation and become more individualistic than your family-oriented culture or your community-oriented culture. It's more about me, me, me. Right. He was caught in that me-me culture. Yeah. I'm so grateful that you were helping us know Korean history. Korean. words, and meanings, and culture. Thank you so much for just sharing all of this because it adds so many layers that I'm going to pick up.

00:15:15:02 - 00:15:41:06
Thank you. That's awesome. I was glad to see this movie come out. And a lot of these wordings were just transliterated, causing lots of curiosity or, right, leaving some audience just where they are. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And he brought in a lot of different snacks. Pizza and ramen noodle from different cultures all together. Yeah. But before going there, you mentioned.

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We mentioned Saja Boys. Yeah. Beautiful feminine looking masculinity in their bodies. They all had six packs. Yeah, they did. But they looked pretty on their face. Right. And one of those Saja Boys – and I was I could not stop thinking about Saja Boys – Saja is a shortened word from Jeoseung Saja. Okay. If you translate that into English,

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that could mean grim reapers. Oh, okay. Yeah. That works for Gwi-Ma. Okay. So Gwi-Ma is the the devil, right? The satanic power that lives in the underworld, that controls the Saja Boys. Even if they sing popular songs, and get all those fame at the bottom of their heart, they listen to this Gwi-Ma. Yeah. Yeah. And Jinu is the one who was trapped in his own shame, right?

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Right. And he moves back and forth between listening to Rumi. And listening to Gwi-Ma. Yeah. Yeah. How often do you feel caught right in between those kinds of voices? Oh yeah. And to those temptations? All the time. Exactly. Yeah. So it's interesting though. Rumi. Born half demon, half human. Which is a flip side of the Christ.

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Half God and half human. Right. Yes. Right. And trying to lean towards the better end of her nature. And she actually ... while the whole movie, and the premise of the movie begins with the idea that the demons will be defeated by community, by song, by the Homun.

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There's something that's still missing. Because part of what was built into that, was the need to hide who you are. Parts of yourself. Right. So Rumi actually takes it to a different level, a different understanding of how the demons can be defeated. As she talks to a demon. Right. And it's ... she knew who is the one that wavers.

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And who he's going to listen to. Right. And Rumi is standing firm in being good and saying it's a mistake. And Jinu is a little bit catching on but still not quite. But it's because of their relationship that Rumi was able to see in Jinu both the good despite the patterns and despite how he had lived and despite what he had done, she still saw the good.

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And it was that that enabled her to say, “yeah, I'm not going to hide anymore.” That's a part of this big structure right. Yes. Part of this big structure of how we're going to defeat evil. Yes. That doesn't really make us defeat evil. Yes. And I'm glad that you mentioned that part. And in their ... before their conversations, you know, in their conversation, there's a theme of hiding your own flaws.

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Yeah. And I think there is a little connection between that hiding. And the public bathhouse. Okay. So I grew up going to public bathhouse once a week. Okay. So that's where you go naked and there's gendered houses. And you go to wash? Is it like the sauna where you go to relax? Relax and wash and refresh. All of that.

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So every weekend my mother used to take me there, and you get naked, and you go inside. There's nothing you can hide there. Well, so, they use the bathhouse as a symbolism for us going into a place where we don't have to hide anything. And I would, I could not stop thinking about the public baths. Yeah. As a symbolism of the church baptism.

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Okay. Going into the public bathhouse. And the first bathhouse was featured when they were fighting. Yeah. Yeah. And it was called Daese Mog-Yogtang, which means the mainstream public bathhouse. Okay. Okay. Mainstream churches, like, people go in and then instead of getting undressed. Yeah. And relax and be restored. They continue to fight in this space.

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So there is no distinction between the sacred bathhouse and outside the world. You go in with your full clothes on, still trying to hide your patterns. That's where Rumi was discovered by Jinu. That's right. She had patterns. That's right. And then the second bathhouse was featured after all this movie fight was over. It's done. And we triumphed.

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The good triumphs. Yes. And Rumi, finally, after many years of refusing to go to the bathhouse and uncover herself, agreed to go, and got to relax. And she said something about “This is so good.” And the other two girls, “I told you so.” There you go. Yeah. So, as you talk about that first scene of being in the bathhouse and they're fighting. The Huntrix trio are fighting the demons and the Saja Boys in this bathhouse.

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And it made me think, if you're going to talk about baptism, of our baptismal vow, right. Where we – what is it? – we accept the freedom and power God gives you to resist evil, injustice, and oppression. Whatever forms they present themselves. Right? They were fighting those, that system, of oppression and injustice and evil.

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And they were in the bath house doing that. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah. And yet, Rumi, while she was doing it, she wasn't fully accepting the new birth that comes with that vow. Yeah. She’s refusing to own her scars. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And another symbolism that's in that public bathhouse, okay, that it's not your private shower.

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Yeah. It's community, a community one. Yeah. And everyone comes to the one that's in your town, in your little corner of your street. Right? And it's communal refreshment. Yeah. Communal restoration. Communal healing. Communal rest. Yeah. Yeah. From which we all come back to your everydayness with that refreshed self. So it's an interesting kind of juxtaposition to think of Rumi and her fans and the Huntrix singers, they work together.

00:23:18:18 - 00:23:49:01
To fight for  the world, to eliminate evil. And Gwi-Ma, and the Saja Boys, and all the demons in that other world, they have no say. It's all about Gwi-Ma. Right. And yes. And Gwi-Ma is trying to suck everyone into. Yes is into his will, his desire, his need, all of that kind of stuff.

00:23:49:01 - 00:24:14:16
So two very different ideas of what you do with community. And that shows us about a little bit about our real life. Yeah. The polarized world where we have two different values for sure pulling us apart for sure. But the song started with three girls. And a lot of others have started joining them.

00:24:14:17 - 00:24:34:08
Yeah. And when it became a chorus of the world. Right. Right. And it actually started with just Rumi. It was a very interesting. Yes. I mean, by the time, you know, by the time that final conflict is happening, and Rumi has been exposed, and everybody's turned against her, and then the demons just have a have a field day.

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They're hearing the voices who is saying “you're not enough.” “You're not enough.” And they're all feeling the doubt. And that awful feeling of all that they want to hide in there. But Rumi walks out into this auditorium and begins singing. Yes. And then the other two join. And then it begins to spin. So it even started with just one person.

00:24:56:16 - 00:25:20:06
Yes. Right. Yes. Yeah. And now that I hear your description of that chorus, it reminded me of the first scene where this trio was going on a private jet. Flying over and eating all these snacks that they were not supposed to eat before the concert. That's right. And they were being served those snacks by demons.

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Yes. Yeah. And you remember the song? “I'm going up, up, up.” But is that what they were saying? Yes. So they were going up on the plane. Okay. It's like there you go. On a different plane? Yeah. Different world. High up. Yeah. Away from the mess. Yeah. But the last closing song was “take down.” There you go to sing to sing those songs together.

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Wow. In the world. Okay. So there was a little connection between our desire to be religiously higher. There you go. But the redemption comes only when we bring the stories down. The song. Yeah. And take everyone down and take everyone down to where the flight is? Yes. To work together?

00:26:19:17 - 00:26:48:20
Yes. And to get messy. And to be honest. Who knew this animated children's film had so much symbolism and theology? Yes. Hannah, thank you so much for bringing this conversation to us. It was it was a lot of fun. And I love watching movies, and it's lovely to be able to see some of the things that I may have missed by just humming along to the song that I think is just background noise.

00:26:48:20 - 00:27:10:23
That's the beauty of watching movies together and talking about it. That's right. That's right. Thank you for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it. We'll have a couple of more in this series. So, watch for news in our Patreon channel or our YouTube channel or anywhere you get your podcast. We will see you next time at the movies.

00:27:11:01 - 00:27:35:11
Yes. At the movies. Field trips. You know, theoretically, public movie house. There you go. This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org.