00:00:01:04 - 00:00:10:04 Rev. Brittany In a noisy world it is very hard to hear anything, let alone a whisper from God in the night. So what are we to do? 00:00:10:06 - 00:00:23:16 Rev. Trudy Welcome to Perspectives, a podcast where the clergy, women of the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. 00:00:23:18 - 00:00:40:10 Rev. Brittany Hi there, and welcome to another episode of Perspectives. I'm Reverend Brittany. I'm here with Reverend Trudy. We're glad that you're watching with us today. We are entering our fourth season. Wow—four seasons of our podcast. It’s hard to believe. 00:00:40:11 - 00:00:52:18 Rev. Trudy Where does the time go? But it's been so much fun. It has been and continues to be. It does. I'm looking forward to this conversation. We're moving and we're grooving. 00:00:52:20 - 00:01:10:13 Rev. Brittany Today we are starting our new sermon series called God Is Still Speaking: Listening for God in a Noisy World. Today our theme is “whispering in the night.” Our Scripture comes from the book of 1 Samuel 3:1-10: 00:01:10:19 - 00:01:17:02 Rev. Trudy I do recognize that sometimes in our conversations, each of us gets a little preachy, so I think you can call it a sermon. 00:01:17:03 - 00:01:18:01 Rev. Brittany It is kind of a sermon. 00:01:18:05 - 00:01:27:11 Rev. Trudy It gets a little preachy. I can't help it. The point is, we are pastors. Oh my gosh. 00:01:27:12 - 00:01:29:13 Rev. Trudy What's the scripture? All right. 00:01:29:15 - 00:01:56:15 Rev. Brittany So the Scripture begins with, “Now the boy Samuel was serving the Lord under Eli. The Lord's word was rare at that time, and visions weren't widely known. One day, Eli, whose eyes had grown so weak that he was unable to see, was lying down in his room. God's lamp hadn't gone out yet, and Samuel was lying down in the Lord's temple where God's chest was.” 00:01:56:17 - 00:02:23:15 Rev. Brittany The Lord called to Samuel. “I'm here,” he said. Samuel hurried to Eli and said, “I'm here. You called me.” “I didn't call you,” Eli replied. “Go lie down.” And so he did. Again the Lord called to Samuel. So Samuel got up, went to Eli, and said, “I'm here. You called me.” “I didn't call you, my son,” Eli replied. “Go and lie down.” 00:02:23:17 - 00:02:48:16 Rev. Brittany Now, Samuel didn't yet know the Lord, and the Lord's word hadn't yet been revealed to him. A third time the Lord called to Samuel. He got up, went to Eli, and said, “I'm here. You called me.” Then Eli realized that it was the Lord who was calling the boy. So Eli said to Samuel, “Go and lie down. If he calls you again, say, ‘Speak, Lord. Your servant is listening.’” 00:02:48:18 - 00:03:07:06 Rev. Brittany So Samuel went and lay down where he had been. Then the Lord came and stood there, calling just as before, “Samuel! Samuel!” And Samuel said, “Speak. Your servant is listening.” 00:03:07:08 - 00:03:14:12 Rev. Trudy Everybody loves a good call story—or at least most of the preachers I know. Do you like a good call story? 00:03:14:13 - 00:03:15:20 Rev. Brittany Mine's complicated. 00:03:15:21 - 00:03:41:04 Rev. Trudy They all are, I think. That's part of the reason I like them. This one has a lot of interesting things going on. I love the whole way it's said and the story where it came from. This is Samuel, who is Hannah's son. 00:03:41:05 - 00:04:11:15 Rev. Trudy Hannah had an unlikely pregnancy. She prayed, had a son, and was so grateful that she dedicated her son to God and the priesthood. Eli is the priest who is tutoring or bringing up this young boy, and then he is called to do whatever God is going to say. 00:04:11:18 - 00:04:25:19 Rev. Trudy That's beyond our Scripture, but we might touch upon it. I love the fact that in this Scripture, it says in my version, “The word of the Lord was rare in those days.” 00:04:25:22 - 00:04:26:23 Rev. Brittany I highlighted that, too. 00:04:26:23 - 00:04:48:03 Rev. Trudy Visions were not widespread. It makes me think two things. It makes me wonder, were they really all that often in days prior? And what did that look like? I wonder why the word of the Lord was not prevalent these days. 00:04:48:04 - 00:04:52:12 Rev. Brittany Oh. He was—well, the scripture says. Right. 00:04:52:14 - 00:05:17:10 Rev. Brittany God was pretty angry at Eli's sons for the ways in which they were going against God and being very self-indulgent and disrespectful. And so, God, I guess, stopped speaking so loudly or so often, even to Eli, who didn't have anything to do with what his sons were doing. 00:05:18:00 - 00:05:22:14 Rev. Brittany With the exception of, I guess, not having the strength to tackle them. 00:05:22:16 - 00:05:49:13 Rev. Trudy To bring his boys in line. It's an interesting dynamic. Eli seems to be caught between being able to hear God and being able to hear his sons, to a certain extent. I bring my lens of being a parent to this story, and I think about the best we try to do by our children. 00:05:49:13 - 00:06:12:02 Rev. Trudy We try to do so well by our children, but they're always going to grow up and be something different. We aren't always going to understand or approve of any of that stuff, but our hearts are still there. That tension between what God would want, what Eli wants, and what the boys want has got to be part of why Eli wasn't able to hear the voice of God. 00:06:12:05 - 00:06:17:06 Rev. Trudy Has got to be part of why Eli wasn't able to hear the voice of God. 00:06:17:08 - 00:06:18:16 Rev. Brittany For sure. 00:06:18:18 - 00:06:38:12 Rev. Brittany For sure. It's very hard when you've been put in this position, I think, to care for the people as a priest and to make the ritualistic sacrifices and all the things. Of course, you want the best for your children and the best for the people that you're serving. 00:06:38:14 - 00:06:48:22 Rev. Trudy My gosh, let's just talk about the tension we feel between our personal lives and the life of the church. So that was an outburst. I won't have another one. 00:06:49:01 - 00:07:14:18 Rev. Brittany Keep having them. But it's the truth. It's this personal responsibility that you have to shepherd the people and to listen to the voice of God while also, like you said, having your own personal life, having things go on, and having your attention pulled in different ways. I find the church— 00:07:14:20 - 00:07:28:23 Rev. Brittany I didn't mean to get down this rabbit hole, but I have found that the church requires a lot from pastors and people who are leading the church. It's a lot of pressure sometimes. 00:07:29:00 - 00:07:43:02 Rev. Trudy It is. People, I think, don't understand all that we do and how much is on our plates. Even something as simple as, “Oh, I found a good article. You should read it.” Then, “Have you read it?” It's like, “No…….” 00:07:43:02 - 00:07:44:01 Rev. Brittany I know exactly. 00:07:44:05 - 00:07:57:23 Rev. Trudy “I'll do it, I promise!!” Little things, big things—there's a lot of pressure. I can't help but think Eli was probably just getting old, tired, and weary. 00:07:58:01 - 00:08:00:03 Rev. Brittany He couldn't see anymore. 00:08:00:06 - 00:08:07:02 Rev. Trudy You know what I love? The way that dim vision— 00:08:07:04 - 00:08:10:00 Rev. Trudy I think it's connected to being able to hear the voice of God. 00:08:10:01 - 00:08:11:07 Rev. Brittany Exactly. Of course. 00:08:11:08 - 00:08:38:14 Rev. Trudy The voice of God will always give you better vision, a better perspective, some insight that you don't know, and even just what we regularly speak of as vision: a new place to go and a new place to be. He seems to be really mired in the family dynamic, so he can't quite see the vision. 00:08:38:15 - 00:08:42:07 Rev. Trudy He can't see anything beyond the problem in front of him. 00:08:42:09 - 00:08:54:05 Rev. Brittany And wants to do the right thing. You know, like Eli was after God's heart. Eli was, you know, a priest of God and did the things that God asked of him. However… 00:08:55:04 - 00:09:20:23 Rev. Brittany You can't do it all. I have so much respect for Eli in the stories about Samuel, but I feel like Eli is a real pivotal character because I find him to be someone who is really doing his best and has dedicated his life, and then it still sometimes isn't enough. 00:09:21:01 - 00:09:21:22 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:09:22:00 - 00:09:22:11 Rev. Brittany You know? 00:09:22:12 - 00:09:22:22 Rev. Trudy Yeah. Yeah. 00:09:23:03 - 00:09:24:15 Rev. Brittany Which is really like… 00:09:24:20 - 00:09:50:16 Rev. Trudy You don't see the impact you thought you would have that was promised. Even if it's Moses not being able to get to the Promised Land, there's some, “I thought we were going there. I thought I would get there,” and it just doesn't happen. What was heartbreaking for me in this story, especially around Eli, is the fact that Samuel hears the voice three times and Eli is like, “No, it wasn't me.” 00:09:50:17 - 00:10:02:10 Rev. Trudy Go back to bed. Not even thinking it could have been something more significant than that. You know, just didn't even have the bandwidth right to say, oh, yeah, I'm supposed to be thinking about God. Maybe it's God calling me. 00:10:02:11 - 00:10:02:21 Rev. Brittany Maybe it is. 00:10:02:21 - 00:10:07:09 Rev. Trudy God, you know? No, it's not me. Let me go back to sleep because I'm so tired. 00:10:07:11 - 00:10:09:02 Rev. Brittany Exhausted. 00:10:09:06 - 00:10:11:14 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. “These boys are killing me!” 00:10:11:16 - 00:10:33:02 Rev. Brittany I have absolutely had those experiences, even recently: feeling so exhausted that I can't even imagine God is saying anything. And if God is speaking, I have closed up shop because I just don't have the capacity. 00:10:33:06 - 00:10:33:16 Rev. Trudy That’s right. 00:10:33:17 - 00:10:49:10 Rev. Brittany What does that mean? And how do we move through and beyond that a bit? Eli finally has the epiphany: “Oh no, my son, that is God calling.” 00:10:49:10 - 00:11:16:00 Rev. Trudy I hear God's grace in this story, too, because God didn't call Eli. He was reaching out to Samuel, and it was Samuel who put Eli in the middle of that. Maybe there's a little bit of grace for Eli to know that you've done what you can, and it's okay. 00:11:16:02 - 00:11:41:13 Rev. Trudy You've been raising this young boy up. “I'm going to talk to this guy.” Even still, Scripture says that the lamp of God had not yet gone out. That, of course, is the lamp that Moses was told by God to create and to keep lit so that the people would recognize God's presence with them always. 00:11:41:15 - 00:12:03:11 Rev. Trudy Some form of the lamp is in many of the Christian churches we know because of that imperative. It's part of why we bring in the light and take out the light. The grace of God shows itself because that lamp is there and the light is still going. 00:12:03:12 - 00:12:23:08 Rev. Trudy It's not gone out. And so, every time Eli has a has the ability to be in that space, Eli can see the reminder of God's presence. And it's there when he's ready to look, when he's ready to understand or to recognize, God speaking. 00:12:23:13 - 00:12:29:06 Rev. Brittany And I think it's really like a beautiful depiction 00:12:29:08 - 00:12:50:17 Rev. Brittany of what leadership looks like in a healthy way. I feel like Eli doesn't—later on in the Scripture, Eli asks Samuel what God has told him. He says, “Don't lie to me. Tell me the truth.” And the revelation is not good news. 00:12:50:19 - 00:12:51:23 Rev. Trudy It's not good. 00:12:52:01 - 00:13:16:14 Rev. Brittany The thing that I respected about Eli was that he didn't fuss about it. He didn't get upset with Samuel. He didn't even get angry with God. He accepted that it was time for new things to come. It wasn't necessarily this warm and fuzzy feeling that he got on the inside, but he knew, “Okay, it's time for God to do what God is going to do in this new way.” 00:13:16:14 - 00:13:45:14 Rev. Brittany I sometimes feel, as a younger leader, that more seasoned leaders have difficulty stepping away, whether in politics, business, or sometimes in the church. Hearing criticism, whatever it may be, is not always going to feel good, but they need to hear it, recognize the Word of God, and maybe move along. 00:13:45:14 - 00:14:00:08 Rev. Brittany So that the person you have mentored, the person you have poured into, can continue to flourish, grow, and move, instead of being a cog in the wheel, in a sense. 00:14:00:10 - 00:14:06:21 Rev. Trudy Yeah, mailing it in as they always have. You know, I'm convinced that God never goes backwards. 00:14:06:22 - 00:14:07:22 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:14:08:00 - 00:14:34:12 Rev. Trudy Never goes backwards. That kind of passing of the mantle is interesting because it does say that Samuel had yet to know God. So whatever mentoring, whatever care Eli was giving him, it wasn't yet finished. There's something helpful about that. It keeps Samuel from “the way we've always done it.” 00:14:34:13 - 00:15:00:04 Rev. Trudy But to come to know God differently—not through Eli's lens, but through his own experience. I like the fact that he's such a boy. It's the passing of leadership, but it's also the ground that allows a different and new understanding and perspective of God, and therefore perhaps a new vision. 00:15:00:09 - 00:15:01:02 Rev. Brittany Exactly. 00:15:01:03 - 00:15:01:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:15:01:14 - 00:15:32:23 Rev. Brittany I think Eli was very important in Samuel's story. Of course, Eli recognizes that it's God's voice and tells him, but Samuel was also in proximity to be able to receive it because he was in Eli's presence. I think that's really important: to know that you might not be able to see all of the fruits of your labor. 00:15:33:02 - 00:15:44:00 Rev. Brittany But there is something beautiful in recognizing that God is still doing a new thing, and that your work isn't in vain, that God will use all of it. 00:15:44:01 - 00:16:10:07 Rev. Trudy Absolutely. Eli may not have heard the first couple of times when Samuel said, “Hey, I heard something.” “Not me.” But he got around to it. Sometimes our role as older leaders is to create the space for somebody else to experience God, and that's a beautiful, powerful thing. 00:16:10:08 - 00:16:35:01 Rev. Trudy It hurts my heart to think that, in the church, sometimes we don't allow that space, and we don't allow the revelation of that space to be very different. I think we're learning in this age that there are a lot more expressions of God, a lot more ways to encounter God, than the church might sanction. 00:16:35:03 - 00:16:36:12 Rev. Brittany Correct. 00:16:36:13 - 00:16:39:18 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:16:39:20 - 00:16:46:17 Rev. Trudy I like Samuel. So, what do you think? 00:16:46:19 - 00:16:54:02 Rev. Trudy You know, what do you think, Samuel? 00:16:54:04 - 00:17:02:13 Rev. Trudy What do you think he thought when God is speaking to him. 00:17:02:15 - 00:17:03:20 Rev. Trudy Let me even back up further. 00:17:03:21 - 00:17:18:07 Rev. Trudy Let's go here. What does it mean that God is speaking to any of us? How do we know it if we don't have an Eli to say it? 00:17:18:12 - 00:17:38:21 How do we hear God's voice? There had been no word from God for a very long time. It feels like we can say that, and yet there is something that motivates me. What does the voice of God sound like here? What does it look like? 00:17:38:23 - 00:18:03:07 Rev. Brittany I think it's different depending on the day. Sometimes, from what we're talking about, it can sound like a whisper in the night, and you don't even know that you've heard anything. For me, some days I'm a little better at recognizing it than other days. 00:18:03:08 - 00:18:37:14 Rev. Brittany But there's usually this sense that I can't let whatever it is go, whether it's an issue of injustice or a beautiful experience that I've had. Whatever that thing is, I ruminate; I can't let it go. It's not always a negative rumination, but there's something about holding on to it. 00:18:37:15 - 00:18:41:16 Rev. Brittany And feeling very convicted by it. 00:18:41:19 - 00:18:54:13 Rev. Trudy It's like what many clergy will say to somebody who feels called to ministry: you're called if there's absolutely nothing else you can do. 00:18:54:15 - 00:19:12:22 Rev. Brittany Oh, I heard that. Tex Sample said: “Ministry is a lot like throwing up. You resist it and you resist it and you resist it until you absolutely can't anymore.” That has always stuck with me because I was in divinity school, like, “I don't even know how I got here. I don't even know what's happening right now.” 00:19:13:00 - 00:19:14:03 Rev. Trudy I love Tex Sample. 00:19:14:05 - 00:19:18:22 Rev. Trudy I haven't heard his name for a long time. Yeah, for a long time. Yeah, that's. That's funny. 00:19:19:00 - 00:19:42:15 Rev. Trudy The whispering in the night—that's probably more often than not how I understand God or how I feel God. It never comes as a loud voice or as a clear revelation. It's always, like you said, something that I can't let go of, something that is just nagging at the edges. It's soft, and it builds. 00:19:42:20 - 00:19:48:01 Rev. Trudy Perhaps, if I pay attention to it long enough. It's crystal clear in hindsight. 00:19:48:03 - 00:19:54:09 Rev. Brittany Always hindsight. It's like, “Oh yeah, that was absolutely God.” But in the moment— 00:19:54:10 - 00:20:11:07 Rev. Trudy There you go. There you go. And Samuel, one of the commentaries I read said that Samuel, after hearing in this call story, undergoes eagerness, confusion, maturity, growth, realization, knowledge, panic, and affirmation. 00:20:11:09 - 00:20:11:22 Rev. Brittany Sounds about right. 00:20:11:23 - 00:20:12:14 Rev. Trudy Sounds about right. 00:20:14:04 - 00:20:36:01 Rev. Trudy And none of it is clear. The voice of God, or God's presence or nudging—however we want to talk about it—is around Samuel, but there are so many other things competing. For Eli, it was his sons. For Samuel, it was all these different emotions. For us, it's the to-do list. 00:20:36:02 - 00:20:44:11 Rev. Trudy It's the outside world whispering in our ears. It's the mirror that says, you know, no, you can't do that. It's any of those things. Right? 00:20:44:12 - 00:21:07:08 Rev. Brittany What's about to happen is that the Philistines are coming, and so the political turmoil happening in and around Israel is building. Samuel is in a very precarious spot because he's not in the days of old that folks talked about, in the land of milk and honey. 00:21:07:10 - 00:21:32:20 Rev. Brittany He's dealing with a lot of corruption. He's dealing with the fact that the empire is soon to fall. I think that adds another layer. The difficulty in our day and age is that it can be hard to hear God's voice or acknowledge that whisper because you're like, “Is that just my anxiety about this particular thing?” 00:21:32:23 - 00:21:55:03 Rev. Brittany Because that very well could be it. But I also think, just like you said, that whispering that builds is important to pay attention to. I don't necessarily think that we have done a good job of being able to recognize it within the church, outside of the church, as it relates to the social climate of, you know. 00:21:55:05 - 00:22:21:07 Rev. Trudy Absolutely. It's significant that when God speaks to Samuel, God says, “Oh, it's going to be worse. It's going to be bad. Devastation's coming. It's going to be horrible. It's going to be terrible.” That's what gets in the way of us hearing God's voice: all the panic around that. And God doesn't take it away. 00:22:21:08 - 00:22:50:17 Rev. Trudy God says, “That's right. You read the tea leaves correctly.” Yet that's the challenge: to hear God say it and to know that God knows. God is the only way we have a way out of this. The lamp is still burning, the presence is still there, and the voice might be a whisper, but it is still talking. 00:22:50:19 - 00:23:06:00 Rev. Trudy And if we can hold on to the voice, then maybe there's the hope in the midst of all of this battle and turmoil and devastation that is to come, so that we can know that there will be a future beyond it. 00:23:06:02 - 00:23:20:05 Rev. Brittany Because in order for new things to come, there have to be. I don't want to say a burning, but there has to be an ending, right? 00:23:20:06 - 00:23:23:09 Rev. Trudy Something has to die for. Something new to be born. 00:23:23:10 - 00:23:48:10 Rev. Brittany Correct. We have seen that over and over again. What makes it difficult is that it is very uncomfortable to sit in the between, to straddle the here and now and also the new thing that God is doing. That sense of discomfort will make you feel like the light and the lamp of God have gone out because— 00:23:48:12 - 00:23:49:01 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:23:49:07 - 00:23:52:22 Rev. Brittany It's like, “What am I supposed to do with this discomfort?” 00:23:53:02 - 00:24:05:17 Rev. Trudy I'm sure that's what Eli is thinking. In the midst of all the chaos and everything, people can react like Eli's sons and go too far in the dying, the changing, and the chaos. 00:24:05:17 - 00:24:06:17 Rev. Brittany And might as well just do anything at all. 00:24:06:17 - 00:24:18:23 Rev. Trudy Exactly. These times are really difficult, and God knows it and tells us the truth. 00:24:19:01 - 00:24:23:12 Rev. Brittany And the truth hurts, as they say. Sitting with the truth— 00:24:23:18 - 00:24:29:12 Rev. Trudy But wouldn't you rather hear the truth whispered to you than, you know, like proclaimed? 00:24:29:13 - 00:24:36:19 Rev. Brittany I don't know, because sometimes it's like, “Speak up. Say it louder. Tell me again. Make it clear.” 00:24:36:20 - 00:24:37:02 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:24:37:03 - 00:24:45:03 Rev. Brittany Maybe that's my East Coast personality, as opposed to your California—Colorado?—chill vibe. 00:24:45:05 - 00:24:45:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:24:45:12 - 00:24:51:21 Rev. Brittany Ain't nothing about me too chill. You gotta say it to me, and say it with your chest, Lord. 00:24:52:22 - 00:25:02:17 Rev. Trudy And Samuel ends up becoming the priest who crowns king David. 00:25:02:19 - 00:25:03:18 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:25:03:20 - 00:25:08:18 Rev. Brittany When they weren't supposed to have kings. 00:25:08:20 - 00:25:09:16 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. 00:25:09:17 - 00:25:26:02 Rev. Trudy Saul came first, and then David. So, there was something good that came out of it. It was different, and it has its problems, but they came out of it. Isn't that always life? 00:25:26:04 - 00:25:29:14 Rev. Brittany That's life. Isn't it beautiful? 00:25:29:15 - 00:25:35:12 Rev. Trudy Isn't it beautiful? The lamp is still burning. 00:25:35:13 - 00:25:43:00 Rev. Brittany That's what the Word says: “But the Lord's word was rare at that time.” 00:25:43:03 - 00:25:43:15 Rev. Trudy There you go. 00:25:43:16 - 00:25:50:06 Rev. Trudy I will pray that the whisper will turn up the volume just a little bit for all of us. 00:25:50:07 - 00:25:51:10 Rev. Brittany Amen. 00:25:51:12 - 00:25:53:13 Rev. Trudy I always enjoy talking with you. 00:25:53:13 - 00:25:54:04 Rev. Brittany Thank you. 00:25:54:05 - 00:26:22:20 Rev. Trudy Thank you. I hope you have enjoyed listening to our conversation, our perspectives around this wonderful call story, and I hope you will take your thoughts and share them with others, and invite yourself and others to consider these specific questions around our conversation. I've got three of them for you. The first one is: How do you understand God's silence and God's voice? 00:26:22:22 - 00:26:50:20 Rev. Trudy Number two: What voices are competing for your attention right now, and which ones have you allowed to carry the most weight? And number three: When have you experienced an unexpected interruption that, in hindsight, may have been an invitation to something new? Really good questions, all from this Scripture reading. We are so glad you joined us. 00:26:50:23 - 00:26:52:17 Rev. Trudy We'll see you next time. 00:26:52:19 - 00:27:07:15 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit FUMCSD.org.