00:00:00:18 - 00:00:06:18 Rev. Brittany Some winds arrive gently. Others arrive suddenly and they change everything. 00:00:06:23 - 00:00:20:19 Rev. Trudy Welcome to Perspectives, a podcast where the clergy women of the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. 00:00:20:21 - 00:00:45:10 Rev. Brittany Hi there. Welcome to this week's episode of Perspectives. I'm Reverend Brittany, I'm here with Reverend Hannah. We are celebrating Pentecost this week, and we'll be reading from the book of Acts, chapter 2, verses 1 through 21. And our title is: Suddenly, A Sound From Heaven. I'll be reading from the Common English Bible. “When Pentecost Day arrived, they were all together in one place. 00:00:45:10 - 00:01:08:09 Rev. Brittany Suddenly a sound from heaven, like a howling of a fierce wind, filled the entire house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be individual flames of fire alighting on each one of them. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit enabled them to speak. There were pious Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem. 00:01:08:13 - 00:01:46:18 Rev. Brittany When they heard this sound, a crowd gathered. They were mystified because everyone heard them speaking in their native languages. They were surprised and amazed, saying, ‘Look, aren't all those who are speaking Galileans, every one of them? How can each of us hear them speaking in their native language? Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; as residents of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and other regions of Libya bordering Cyrene; and visitors from Rome 00:01:46:18 - 00:02:14:10 Rev. Brittany (both Jews and converts of Judaism), Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the mighty works of God in their own languages!’ They were all surprised and bewildered. Some asked, ‘What does this mean?’ Others jeered at them, saying ‘They are full of wine!’ Peter stood with the 11 apostles. He raised his voice and declared, ‘Judeans and everyone living in Jerusalem! Know this! 00:02:14:11 - 00:02:39:17 Rev. Brittany Listen carefully to my words! These people aren't drunk as you suspect; after all, It's only 9 in the morning! Rather, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel: In the last days, God will pour out my spirit on all people. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy. Your young will see visions, and your elders will dream dreams. 00:02:39:17 - 00:03:03:13 Rev. Brittany Even upon my servants, men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will cause wonders to occur in the heavens above, and signs on the earth below. Blood and fire in a cloud of smoke. The sun will be changed to darkness, and the moon will be changed into blood. Before the great and spectacular day of the Lord comes. 00:03:03:15 - 00:03:23:18 Rev. Brittany And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’” Reverend Hannah, yes, we read this scripture pretty much every Pentecost, right? But like you said to me, it speaks to us differently each year. So what were some things that stuck out to you? 00:03:23:20 - 00:03:42:10 Rev. Hannah I was listening to your reading and reading some commentaries. How disruptive it could have been, disruption, eruption and changes. And it's. 00:03:42:12 - 00:03:50:08 Rev. Hannah Radical change right there that no one expected to have that. Let's begin there. 00:03:50:12 - 00:04:10:19 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I mean, for me, these folks are there in Jerusalem, right? And most of them have come because there's like the festivals that are happening, the high Holy days. And these people are coming from all over. Jesus has already ascended into heaven. That was last Sunday, right? And so Jesus had given them the sign that the Spirit of God is coming. 00:04:11:00 - 00:04:32:10 Rev. Brittany You just need to be on the lookout, right? And I think what's really interesting to me is that they don't know when the Spirit of God is coming. They don't know when their lives are going to be turned upside down, or when not even necessarily turned upside down, but when this disruption is going to come and open their eyes to see each other differently and maybe even see themselves differently. 00:04:32:12 - 00:05:00:09 Rev. Brittany And I think about, at least in my own experience, the Spirit of God when I have encountered something radical or something that's really opened up my eyes, it's usually when I least expect it. It's not when I'm looking for the miracle that it happens in miracle by that just meaning like something beautiful that changes me. It usually happens when I'm a little bit more closed off. 00:05:00:10 - 00:05:35:16 Rev. Hannah Yes. And also in a more dramatic moment like this, you mentioned that it was Jewish holiday. People were coming. And think about all those people traveling from afar to observe this holiday, high holiday right there. Pious people, religious people. So when these pious people were coming, these Jesus follower minus Jesus were scared. And these are not just the 12 people inside close room. 00:05:35:16 - 00:05:44:23 Rev. Hannah There are those people coming from all of the places. So this is the least expected event, right? 00:05:45:00 - 00:05:51:07 Rev. Brittany And I think it shows, at least for me, that the Holy Spirit didn't just come to the 12 apostles, right? 00:05:51:08 - 00:05:52:07 Rev. Hannah All these people. 00:05:52:08 - 00:05:53:02 Rev. Brittany All of them. 00:05:53:03 - 00:05:57:10 Rev. Hannah That's why acts list all those backgrounds. 00:05:57:11 - 00:06:13:04 Rev. Brittany Exactly. That's why it's very important. I was like, I could skip it, but that's like the crux of it, right? You can't skip the fact that God’s Spirit came in the midst of all of this diversity and all of this difference and spread across that difference, you know. Yeah. 00:06:13:05 - 00:06:40:17 Rev. Hannah Yes. And rested upon everyone coming in town. So it didn't avoid anyone. That's the beauty of the metaphor of wind. As the Holy Spirit, we always think about the fire. Right? But it's the fire and wind and falls like water, which is everywhere. But the beauty of it is that. 00:06:40:19 - 00:07:14:15 Rev. Hannah Their language, those different languages, did not fall in, collapse into one uniform language. Right? For some reason, they were able to hear and understand, and it has to come from their heart trying to understand. So even across cultures and different languages, you and I, when we started hearing each other's stories, there were moments at the beginning that we were able to hear the pains and life stories. 00:07:14:15 - 00:07:27:00 Rev. Hannah So I think that's like the Holy Spirit moment here. And the diversity is kept. Yeah, but their understanding enhanced. 00:07:27:01 - 00:07:58:23 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I think exactly what you're saying, like, I know that there have been plenty of times where I've traveled or even in my encounters here, and I don't always understand. I'm like, well, what's happening? But I know that I've had this ... like my heart has been strangely warmed, in the words of John Wesley, yes, anyways. But my heart has been strangely warm to be like, oh, I might not understand what this person is trying to convey to me fully with language, but I can also understand what they're trying to convey to me. 00:07:59:00 - 00:08:21:00 Rev. Brittany Heart to heart. Eye to eye. Hand to hand. You know? Yes. Which to me is more beautiful sometimes than being able to just say what it is that I'm trying to communicate freely to someone. Because sometimes I can say something to someone who's a native English speaker and it falls flat right over their head. It's like, what are you talking about? 00:08:21:00 - 00:08:43:13 Rev. Brittany Right? But there are other instances where I don't have to utter a word. But through our interactions with each other, our hearts are changed. And I will remember those encounters, like with the Maos, for instance, the you know, when we did the migrant shelter, it was very I mean, there were so many languages, so many different folks with, you know, from all over the world who spoke so many different languages. 00:08:43:13 - 00:09:07:01 Rev. Brittany But there was something about the twinkle in the eye or the smile, you know, that really reminded us, that reminded me that, like, we're all human and that we were all created in God's image, and that language is one way, only one way that we communicate. Right. And actually, our nonverbal language is usually the height of that communication, you know? 00:09:07:01 - 00:09:07:15 Rev. Brittany Yes. 00:09:07:19 - 00:09:43:07 Rev. Hannah So the verbal communication only takes a little tiny parts of the iceberg. And it's the observant eyes or attentive heart trying to communicate with people or trying to understand what the other person is trying to say, that that can be attributed to the Holy Spirit. And your sharing of your experience, actually steered our attention from the traditional understanding of the Holy Spirit into everyday understanding of the Holy Spirit. 00:09:43:09 - 00:10:04:14 Rev. Hannah People expect this heartwarming moment in the sanctuary with their waves, hands, and all their prayers and with eyes closed. And by the way, my daughter said she was shocked when she first attended a Korean church in Korea. The way people were praying. 00:10:04:16 - 00:10:41:07 Rev. Hannah But we try to limit the experience, the experience of the Holy Spirit to the Christians inside the sanctuary and all of that. But Acts here is now opening up the limitation of the Holy Spirit to the entire city, regardless of your background. And that's something that's public and that's more social, communal, and the Spirit that disrupts people and their divisions and their categories. 00:10:41:08 - 00:10:47:02 Rev. Hannah Yeah. To bring them into one community without erasing their differences. 00:10:47:03 - 00:11:14:01 Rev. Brittany Exactly. It's almost like I remember when we were running the migrant shelter and, you know, Google Translate was like my favorite thing. That's like how we were able to, like, make sure flights were booked correctly. Right? It's almost like the Holy Spirit is the first Google Translate, right? It's like the first way that we are able to communicate with each other without this, like the language barrier being an actual barrier. 00:11:14:05 - 00:11:16:00 Rev. Brittany Yes. 00:11:16:01 - 00:11:26:11 Rev. Hannah Yes, there are people that I could relate to and connect with more naturally than any of people that I meet in the US. 00:11:26:12 - 00:11:53:20 Rev. Brittany Yeah, really. And I think the thing that I think that sometimes what is one of my biggest frustrations in Christianity in general, I think, is that we have an understanding or a belief that in order to be Christian, that our differences are erased, you know, and that's sometimes why Paul kind of gets me a little bit when he talked. 00:11:53:22 - 00:12:27:01 Rev. Brittany I'm just I'm veering off for a bit when there's no Jew nor Gentile. And it's like, I get the point. But there are Jews and there are Gentiles, and they are coming from different experiences and different vantage points, and God created them. Right. And so if we try to just erase our difference, to just create this sameness, then the Spirit of God is, is, is locked in to this very rigid and uniform way of being. 00:12:27:01 - 00:12:32:18 Rev. Brittany And I just don't think that any of us can grasp hold of all that God is, you know? 00:12:32:19 - 00:12:59:14 Rev. Hannah Yes, God, God's creative creativity, which we we're not focusing on this year, but God's creativity is expressed in the diversity of humans and diversity of all the creatures here on earth, both living and non-living. And everything under the sun carries that divine image in diversity. 00:12:59:16 - 00:13:00:18 Rev. Brittany Absolutely. 00:13:00:18 - 00:13:17:05 Rev. Hannah And yes. And what used to be divided before this Pentecost moment, among those all those groups that you pronounced without mistakes. 00:13:17:07 - 00:13:49:17 Rev. Hannah Are now there are barriers are broke open now, and they're able to communicate, they are willing to communicate and they're willing to listen to each other. And it's Pentecost is not about speaking in tongues. It's also listening with hearts. And yes, so that that's what I heard and read this time again. And then another thing that I wanted to mention, this is really key to Korean Christians. 00:13:49:23 - 00:14:21:00 Rev. Hannah Which one? That first, and everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. And that became the basis of exclusionary Christian faith. But if you consider all the diversity of people here gathered and they could have had this could have meant something different back then than how we hear it now, thinking about all those geographical areas. 00:14:21:02 - 00:15:01:20 Rev. Hannah And their Lord is their governor. Right. But at this moment, they're claiming the same Lord as their Lord over their lives. So it's not exclusionary Christian faith. It's more about we're aligning ourselves with the divine love here. Yes. Then what my ruler says in my geographical area. So this year I got I was caught on that one and got to see the embracing, inclusive love of God. 00:15:01:22 - 00:15:22:06 Rev. Brittany It kind of reminds me with like, naming all of these places where these people have gathered and from, you know, where they've come from. I think about the organization Doctors Without Borders, right. And I think about God without Borders. Like God has no borders. We create borders and try to contain God. Yes, but God is everywhere, you know. 00:15:22:07 - 00:15:48:06 Rev. Brittany And so when I think about, you know, anti-Semitism or Islamophobia or xenophobia in general or racism or classes, all of those things are borders in which we as humans have created to give us, give ourselves a distinguishing, you know, stance against someone else. But God transcends all of that. And the Holy Spirit transcends every part of the border that we have tried to create. 00:15:48:07 - 00:15:53:06 Rev. Hannah Yes, God is universal in this Pentecost moment movement. 00:15:53:07 - 00:16:22:21 Rev. Brittany Yeah. And for that I'm very thankful. Yes. I also think when you get down to, you know, the prophet Joel words, it's very ... it's also very interesting to me sometimes, it has nothing to do with the sudden change, I guess, but it's also very interesting to me sometimes when this idea of women not in leadership in the church comes up and it's like, did you read the Scripture because it was it says it very clearly. 00:16:22:22 - 00:16:44:17 Rev. Brittany Yes. It says it very clearly. And it also, not just about women in leadership, but also about the importance of intergenerational dialog. Right. And that, you know, you need the young folks to see a vision as to what can be. And you need the elders to have dreams, right, so that they can come together in those dreams. And visions can dance almost, yes, into a new reality. 00:16:44:18 - 00:17:22:02 Rev. Hannah Yes. So I am glad that you read the entire chunk of Acts 2, because there is the intercultural aspects in the beginning, and there is the intergenerational, and everything is included right there, and natural aspects and all that. So yeah. And another thing that stuck to me with that intergenerational cues is that we want to commemorate Pentecost, but Pentecost is not a past event. 00:17:22:03 - 00:17:53:04 Rev. Hannah It's not a monument. It's a movement. We keep on moving with the Spirit, and it's still happening suddenly, suddenly, unexpectedly. And how often do we close ourselves off to the movement of the Holy Spirit? How often do we like orderly things? How often do we want to push? And we just against disruptive changes. 00:17:53:06 - 00:17:59:00 Rev. Brittany Disruptive changes, and sometimes not even so disruptive. It could be. 00:17:59:01 - 00:18:01:07 Rev. Hannah We make more bigger fuss about. 00:18:01:08 - 00:18:04:08 Rev. Brittany We disrupted. Yeah it wasn't that serious. 00:18:04:08 - 00:18:06:12 Rev. Hannah Everybody reaction is disruptive. 00:18:06:13 - 00:18:35:06 Rev. Brittany Correct. Exactly right. It's like all right everybody slow down. Slow down. Yeah, I, it's very interesting to me when I think about just how the Spirit of God shows up again and again and again and again. And invites us, the church, to participate in that life and not only the church. Right. God is moving all around inside the church, outside of the church walls. 00:18:35:07 - 00:19:04:03 Rev. Brittany But we sometimes are so conditioned to believe that our worship is the only way that the Spirit of God will show up. That our Bible study is the only way that the Spirit of God will show up. That our prayers are the only way that the Spirit of God will show up. But if we opened our hearts and our eyes and our minds to anything outside of ourselves, we might be suddenly surprised by the work that God is doing actively in communities that we have thrown off to the side because they don't look like us. 00:19:04:03 - 00:19:27:09 Rev. Brittany They don't worship like us. They don't think like us. They don't come from the same community as we do. They don't eat the same foods that we do. But really, I think that when we get to experience the fullness of God's love and the fullness of who God is, it's when we are in community, a diverse community of thought, mind, experiences, reason, tradition. 00:19:27:11 - 00:19:29:21 Rev. Brittany I threw them a little Wesleyan. Just a little bit. 00:19:29:22 - 00:19:51:20 Rev. Hannah And I look forward to having seeing more openness in people, to openness to receive all these diversities with curiosity and openness, to welcome the disruptions of the Holy Spirit with curiosity and with positivity. 00:19:51:21 - 00:19:55:10 Rev. Brittany Instead of judgment. Yes, yes. 00:19:55:12 - 00:19:58:09 Rev. Hannah That was a good conversation. Did you? 00:19:58:11 - 00:19:59:06 Rev. Brittany I did. 00:19:59:07 - 00:20:02:09 Rev. Hannah Okay. 00:20:02:11 - 00:20:24:15 Rev. Hannah I hope other people, our listeners, enjoy your conversation with others about the Holy Spirit and not limit the work of the Holy Spirit as a past moment, but as something you want to be sensitive and more attentive towards. So with that in mind, I would like to pose a few questions to our listeners. 00:20:24:16 - 00:20:25:15 Rev. Brittany Go ahead. 00:20:25:17 - 00:20:48:02 Rev. Hannah All right: When has the Spirit shown up as disruption rather than comfort to you? What does true understanding across difference look like today in your life? Who do we recognize as bearers of the Spirit? 00:20:48:04 - 00:20:49:04 Rev. Brittany Get into it. 00:20:49:05 - 00:20:50:16 Rev. Hannah All right. 00:20:50:18 - 00:21:02:05 Rev. Hannah We thank you for listening to us and hope to hope you enjoy your conversation with whoever is around you, and look forward to seeing you or hearing from you. See you next week. 00:21:02:05 - 00:21:04:04 Rev. Brittany Bye. 00:21:04:06 - 00:21:17:18 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org