00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:07 Rev. Trudy Welcome to Perspectives. A podcast where the clergy, women at the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. 00:00:15:09 - 00:00:42:15 Rev. Brittany Hi there, and welcome to this week's episode of Perspectives. I'm Reverend Brittany, and I'm here with Reverend Trudy, and we're going to talk with you about the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter two, Verses 42 through 47. In this text, we learn about the beginnings of the Christian church and the story. The text says, "The believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teachings, to their community, to their shared meals, and to their prayers. 00:00:42:17 - 00:01:05:04 Rev. Brittany A sense of awe came over everyone. God performed many wonders and signs through the apostles. All the believers were united and they shared everything. They would sell pieces of their property and possessions and distribute all the proceeds to everyone who needed them. Every day they met together in the temple and they ate in their homes. They shared food with gladness and simplicity. 00:01:05:06 - 00:01:16:08 Rev. Brittany They praised God and demonstrated God's goodness to everyone. The Lord added daily to the community, to those who were being saved." Sounds like a really, really interesting. 00:01:16:08 - 00:01:18:18 Rev. Brittany Church, right? Right. Yeah. 00:01:18:20 - 00:01:43:15 Rev. Trudy I want to serve a church like that. I don't know. We'd have not very much to do, it would seem. You know, this passage has always kind of set forth an ideal of what it means to be a church. In fact, I was curious. I kind of googled "Acts Two Church". Right. And, because I hear that reference a lot. 00:01:43:17 - 00:01:51:19 Rev. Trudy And there I found articles in Christian publications or on websites that talk about transforming your church the. 00:01:51:20 - 00:01:54:08 Rev. Trudy Acts 2 way. Right. 00:01:54:10 - 00:02:05:21 Rev. Trudy There's a social media thread asking, "Are you an Acts 2 Church", right? There are even churches in Oklahoma and Virginia that are called the Acts Two Church. 00:02:06:03 - 00:02:08:11 Rev. Trudy Right? If only we all. 00:02:08:11 - 00:02:10:18 Rev. Trudy Could be like an Acts Two 00:02:10:19 - 00:02:12:03 Rev. Trudy Church, right? 00:02:12:05 - 00:02:31:01 Rev. Trudy The Lord is adding numbers to their community every single day. They share things in common and no one has a need for anything. This is a church where the meals are shared and there are signs and wonders and prayers are said. And they were devoted to the apostles teaching. 00:02:31:01 - 00:02:34:12 Rev. Trudy Right? It's idealism. 00:02:34:14 - 00:02:39:21 Rev. Trudy Yeah. And it reminds me, I mean, I'd love to think it actually existed. 00:02:39:23 - 00:02:47:11 Rev. Trudy But, you know, even commentators are saying this is probably not quite the way it happened. 00:02:47:13 - 00:03:16:16 Rev. Trudy And the idealism reminds me of the notion of Jubilee in the Old Testament, in the Hebrew Bible. It's found in Leviticus Chapter 25, Verses 11 and 12. Right. "A jubilee shall be the 50th year. In it you shall neither sow nor reap, nor grow of itself, nor gather the grapes from the unpruned vines. For this jubilee, and it shall be holy to you. 00:03:16:16 - 00:03:42:16 Rev. Trudy You shall eat what it yields out of the field." And it goes on to describe this kind of, rest, if you will, a reset, if you will. The Jubilee year occurred every seventh Sabbath year. Right. So the 49th, 50th year, there's kind of some discrepancy as to which it actually was meant, but it was it was to be an economic, cultural, environmental, communal reset. 00:03:42:18 - 00:03:54:03 Rev. Trudy When the land and the people rest, debts are reconciled, and all of those who are in slavery are set free to return them to their communities. Right? 00:03:54:05 - 00:04:18:01 Rev. Trudy Now, even the Book of Leviticus argues that the Jubilee existed because the land was the possession of Yahweh. It was God's land, and its current occupiers were merely aliens or tenants, and therefore the land should not be sold forever, nothing in perpetuity. It's a really interesting kind of concept, right? But it was all focused on this idea of who God is. 00:04:18:06 - 00:04:40:07 Rev. Trudy That's where that idealism came out of. That was Jubilee. I think it's the idea of who Jesus is that gives us the idealism of Acts 2. Now, whether or not actually Jubilee was ever practiced sporadically or even at all, it's subject for debate, which I think reinforces the idea that it's an idealistic idea. 00:04:40:09 - 00:04:50:15 Rev. Trudy But there's something to that kind of idealism. Yeah, right. I'm an idealist. I like my dreams. I don't want to take them away from me. Right. 00:04:50:17 - 00:05:12:19 Rev. Trudy And this is an idealism in Acts 2. And then Jubilee where, in Jubilee especially, where nobody is separated from their family, where no one would be made a slave in, in Acts 2, it's the place where no one is in need and everything is peaceful and beautiful and shared. Right. 00:05:12:21 - 00:05:27:18 Rev. Brittany It reminds me of the Passover. Right. And when they say that families joined together, and if your family was too small, then you would, you know, share with another family if you didn't need an entire calf. Right? Just this idea of being in community and the needs of other people. 00:05:27:18 - 00:05:48:15 Rev. Trudy That's right. So we do know that the work of Acts 2, or what's described in Acts 2, happened in bits and pieces, right. And hopefully that does in every sort of church. But it's this, it's the broad brush stroke of this is how it was for everybody and everything that that makes it really idealistic. 00:05:49:14 - 00:05:52:04 Rev. Brittany Take us back to the good old days, right? 00:05:52:06 - 00:05:53:19 Rev. Trudy Okay. okay. 00:05:53:20 - 00:05:54:08 Rev. Brittany I'm gonna leave it. 00:05:54:08 - 00:05:54:23 Rev. Trudy Well, I'm. 00:05:55:00 - 00:06:22:14 Rev. Trudy I'm there. I'm kind of going there. Right? I just want to point out that that those are the two big areas in scripture where we really see that articulate in Jubilee next to it. At least that's what I think. But we see it, I think, throughout the scriptures, that kind of idealism, in the miracle stories, Jesus heals in the Gospel and it's an instantaneous kind of a situation. 00:06:22:14 - 00:06:43:09 Rev. Trudy Right? I appreciate the story of healing that Jesus offers where he actually, the man comes in need of healing, but he forgives him first. And Jesus gets a lot of grief around that, right? And Jesus asked his question, what? Which is easier? Right. 00:06:43:11 - 00:06:58:11 Rev. Trudy It dawns on me it's easier to have Jesus just say the word and heal. Rather than to actually have to do the things that we might have to do differently after recognizing the things for which we need forgiveness. 00:06:58:13 - 00:06:59:13 Rev. Trudy Right. Come on. 00:06:59:16 - 00:07:14:22 Rev. Trudy So it comes right back to this idea of, something happening just like that, which is how it sounds like in Acts. So it's also present. I think that idealism in the second coming of Jesus. 00:07:15:00 - 00:07:16:00 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:07:16:02 - 00:07:26:19 Rev. Trudy That Jesus will come again and all will be made well without effort, without transition or resistance or any kind of work on our part. 00:07:26:21 - 00:07:42:00 Rev. Trudy Right. Yeah. So I might be an idealist because I like that dream. But I am willing to work. I don't always do the right things, but. So I think Acts 2 is an idealist image of the early church. 00:07:43:05 - 00:08:01:17 Rev. Trudy And what it means to be an Acts 2 church? I'm not sure. Yeah. Because part of me wonders or thinks that we sometimes miss the goal of what might be indicated here. Right? There's a lot of things mentioned here. And is there a relationship between them? Is the goal to add numbers or to share food, or to show signs and wonders? 00:08:01:17 - 00:08:11:03 Rev. Trudy To pray continually? You know what? What are we going for other than the whole package? 00:08:11:05 - 00:08:41:06 Rev. Hannah Hey, it's Reverend Hannah, I'm really enjoying this conversation. If you are, too, be sure to like, follow, or subscribe, or whatever you need to do on your preferred platform to get the latest Perspectives episode. We'll be bringing a fresh take on scriptures, theology, and life each week. While you're at it, leave a review or drop us a line. We'd love to see your feedback. 00:08:41:08 - 00:08:42:18 Rev. Trudy That's a good question. 00:08:42:20 - 00:09:26:06 Rev. Brittany I mean, I think as the baby Methodist that I am at this point, you know, that "make disciples of Jesus Christ," right? That seems very Acts Two-y, right? But do we know exactly what that means? What does that require? How do we do that thing? Right? Yeah. And I, as we got to talking about, you know, this difference in, or not difference but this understanding of the Acts 2 church, this idealistic church, what really stuck out to me in the scripture was this understanding, this statement, right, that the believers devoted themselves to the Apostles' teachings, to the community, and to their shared meals, and to their prayers. 00:09:26:06 - 00:09:47:02 Rev. Brittany They devoted themselves to the Apostles' teachings. And so is there a difference between the Apostles' teachings and Jesus' teachings? Right? Good question. The apostles, I mean, we talked about it last week when, they cast the lots to figure out which apostle would take or which person would take Judas' place as an apostle. Right. And one of the requirements was that you needed to be there in the beginning. 00:09:47:06 - 00:10:06:23 Rev. Brittany You needed to be with Jesus in order to do this apostolic work. Right? And so, I started to think, well, is there a difference between Jesus' teachings and the teachings of the apostles? And of course, there will be differences, right? Because no matter who's teaching us anything, we are then going to translate that from our lens, right? 00:10:07:00 - 00:10:39:06 Rev. Brittany So they they're not quoting Jesus verbatim. So there's a, you know, there's going to be a little bit of razzle dazzle, as I like to say. Right. And so, the teachings of the apostles, there's an early book that was written called The Didache, and it is actually called The Teaching of the 12 Apostles. And it's an early Christian text that a lot of scholars date to the first or early second century, and the Didache is essentially a lot of anonymous writers kind of telling the making a blueprint for the Christian way of living. 00:10:39:08 - 00:10:58:07 Rev. Brittany It disappeared for a really long time. And then, of course, it popped back up in the late 1800s. But it was used as a tool in the early church to kind of guide people. So the first section talks about the two ways that you can go. Right. You can live a life that's toward life, or you can live a life that's toward death. 00:10:58:09 - 00:11:18:21 Rev. Brittany And essentially the life that is toward life means that you are, you love God, and you love your neighbor as yourself. So those things are very common to what we've heard Jesus say, right? And then in the second section, it deals with, like, the administration of the sacraments. So it talks about baptism and eucharist and, you know, the anointing with oil. 00:11:19:00 - 00:11:27:00 Rev. Brittany It also talks about what you do when prophets are visiting. They come into your community and how you handle other people who want to be a part of the community. 00:11:27:00 - 00:11:28:13 Rev. Trudy Hospitality perhaps. Yeah. 00:11:28:13 - 00:11:30:15 Rev. Brittany And financially essentially, yeah. 00:11:30:18 - 00:11:31:19 Rev. Trudy Stone them. That's about I. 00:11:31:19 - 00:11:35:00 Rev. Brittany Don't stone them. Yeah, exactly. No. You know, open up your hearts. 00:11:35:00 - 00:11:35:19 Rev. Trudy It happened. 00:11:35:19 - 00:11:57:19 Rev. Brittany You know. Well not uncommon. That's not uncommon. So that third section is talking about that radical hospitality essentially. Okay. How do you open up your hearts, your home, like the order of the church. Who is the bishop coming in? The deacons. La la la la la. Right. Reminds me a little bit of the Book of Discipline in this way. 00:11:57:21 - 00:12:27:00 Rev. Brittany I want to jump into the Methodism, but it is given a little prescriptive. Okay. And then there's also the section that talks about church history and that there's really no distinct class between the clergy and all of that. And then, the final section talks about the apocalypse and the revelation and the end times. And so essentially, this book is trying to take Jesus' teachings but adding to them in a way. When I think of Jesus, I think about what Jesus shows, tells us how to live. 00:12:27:05 - 00:12:52:13 Rev. Brittany And in this particular understanding that I'm getting, they're telling us, how to live, but they're also saying what not to do. And I don't really find Jesus saying what not to do, but more saying what you should do. And so I think that's a bit of the difference sometimes when I think that God has much more grace for us and wants us to think about what we how we live. 00:12:52:19 - 00:13:21:12 Rev. Brittany And a lot of times when we, as apostles or disciples, we are really prescriptive in telling people what not to do as opposed to how they might live. So, I'm interested in wondering if any of these teachings that the apostles had, were they, did people receive them well? It sounds like it. If they were adding, you know, to the number day by day, and where were there differences in what the apostles said versus what Jesus said? 00:13:21:13 - 00:13:22:12 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. 00:13:22:13 - 00:13:24:02 Rev. Brittany And how did they reconcile the two? 00:13:24:02 - 00:13:34:10 Rev. Trudy It is an interesting question, because we jumped so quickly from the Gospels to an early church that has already begun to work out these problems of what it means to be a church, right? 00:13:34:12 - 00:13:35:00 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:13:35:01 - 00:14:07:06 Rev. Trudy Yeah. I find it interesting that the, what you pointed out in terms of the teaching that teach us something good as opposed to not do this, right. And I've always believed that people are much more motivated by a vision of something good. Right. And yet, I'm also aware that especially in this, these times where we're so tribal, of more and more sociological studies that are saying that it's really good for a community to bond against a common enemy. 00:14:07:08 - 00:14:08:00 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:14:08:02 - 00:14:29:23 Rev. Trudy And I suppose the early church had that as well. But, man, I want that idealism back. I want the idealism that said, there is no such thing as a common enemy. Right? So, it's yeah, it's tricky, but I love that it starts this passage. You know, he starts with "they were devoted to the apostles teaching." 00:14:30:01 - 00:14:55:12 Rev. Trudy And it made me think about the way in which this learning was done in community. I think the early Christians, they had to be trained in the Didache before they were baptized. Right. A long period of catechism. And it was a learning in community. And, you know, all of our public school settings, most of our charter school, I mean, we learn in community. 00:14:55:14 - 00:14:59:04 Rev. Trudy And I think there's something really powerful in that. 00:14:59:06 - 00:15:06:01 Rev. Brittany Just like Jesus. Right? When he calls the disciples, he calls 12 of them, right? So that they and then other people are drawn to the crowd. 00:15:06:01 - 00:15:06:11 Rev. Trudy Right? 00:15:06:12 - 00:15:13:18 Rev. Brittany Right. I think that it's just something about being able to discuss what we're hearing together helps the learning process. 00:15:13:19 - 00:15:29:03 Rev. Trudy Exactly. Yeah. And it builds community, too. Yeah. You begin to know one another. In school, especially in seminary. And I was learning all this stuff about theology and biblical studies and, you know. 00:15:29:03 - 00:15:46:03 Rev. Trudy Who am I to say? Yeah, I have a question. I wasn't going to do that. Right. So I was very quiet, but I always took advantage whenever the professor would say, if you have questions, come talk to me later. Or one professor actually invited us to share a sack lunch together and just kind of have a conversation about what we're learning. 00:15:46:05 - 00:15:58:10 Rev. Trudy So I was there, and that's when I would offer my question, because it was just like four people there. I could do that. I'd answer my question. And the professor would always say. 00:15:58:12 - 00:16:00:03 Rev. Trudy "Oh, that's such a good question. 00:16:00:03 - 00:16:37:19 Rev. Trudy Why didn't you ask it in class? Other people, I'm sure were thinking about that." But yeah, that kind of back and forth in the community, if that's where ideas are exchanged, that's where we test our understanding and challenge our understandings. Right. And I've always believed in a church setting, when we get more people together to address a problem or to understand situations, we have a greater understanding of what's going on around us. 00:16:37:21 - 00:16:54:15 Rev. Trudy And I kind of picture that as being part of that ideal access to church as well. That kind of learning together and talking through it. We've kind of lost the ability in our culture these days to really dialog in conflictual situations. 00:16:54:15 - 00:16:56:19 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:16:56:21 - 00:17:25:19 Rev. Trudy I know when I talk. Okay, I'll pull the Methodist card right now. When we talk about Methodism to new members who don't know us, I always offer the Quadrilateral role that, for tenants way of understanding God and our placing God, you know. And yet, because those four are so varied in the way each person would understand it, we get a lot of different ideas about what's right. 00:17:25:22 - 00:17:26:11 Rev. Trudy What's the. 00:17:26:11 - 00:17:27:19 Rev. Brittany Quadrilateral tradition? 00:17:27:20 - 00:17:28:21 Rev. Trudy Oh, man. 00:17:28:21 - 00:17:35:08 Rev. Trudy Go back to school. Yes. Thank you. The quadrilateral scripture, tradition, experience, and reason. Right. 00:17:35:08 - 00:17:36:19 Rev. Brittany Thank you, I knew that. 00:17:36:20 - 00:17:59:06 Rev. Trudy I know you did. Thank you. For you, readers, listeners, watchers, yeah, just a reminder. But we all come in scripture a little differently. We all understand tradition or have different traditions. We experience things differently. We don't all reason the same way. Right? So there's a lot of different ways we can come to ideas about God. 00:18:00:11 - 00:18:26:03 Rev. Trudy And yet, we, it's intended to do it together. To have those conversations about theology together in the Methodist Church, if Methodist or anything. We're connected. So we do it together and it gives you freedom within the boundaries. It keeps, you know, keeps us listening to just the voice in our head, which I don't know about your voice in your head, but sometimes mine's a little crazy. 00:18:26:05 - 00:18:27:03 Rev. Brittany Mine's a little off. 00:18:27:03 - 00:18:35:04 Rev. Trudy Right. So? So learning. I wanted to talk to you about that. Yeah, I. Know you did it off my mic, but. 00:18:35:06 - 00:19:02:11 Rev. Trudy But, you know, that learning and community really is a valuable thing. Now, I have to say, though, there's a certain amount of groupthink when we do that, too. And there are some problems, about the weight of the community. I remember a professor once told me, you know, in response to the justice concerns of civil rights or LGBTQ inclusion, you know, that the majority is not always right. 00:19:02:11 - 00:19:03:09 Rev. Trudy They're just the majority. 00:19:04:06 - 00:19:33:11 Rev. Trudy And that's true. And at the same time, I think, the early church was in a situation where they needed the support of fellow believers. They needed to have some sense of majority. Right, some understanding of that. We are a part of this, and I'm a part of them. Right. But I really think at this point in the story, there really was no orthodoxy. 00:19:33:12 - 00:19:48:18 Rev. Trudy There was no doctrine. There was no understanding of, one understanding of, Jesus. All they had was the values that were handed down to them from the apostles who were witnesses to Jesus on earth. 00:19:50:15 - 00:19:54:17 Rev. Trudy Clearly those values were eating together. 00:19:54:19 - 00:19:55:12 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:19:55:14 - 00:20:16:20 Rev. Trudy We're sharing so as to alleviate need, praying together, and worshiping together. Right. Yeah. And you kind of, you know, for all the doctrinal fights we have. Okay. I want to be that kind of Acts 2 Church. Let's just get down to the basics and, you know, eat together and share and. 00:20:16:22 - 00:20:18:06 Rev. Trudy Right. 00:20:18:08 - 00:20:29:08 Rev. Trudy We often forget that the Acts Two Church is really about the practice of becoming a community who does things together. And it won't come instantaneously. 00:20:29:13 - 00:20:30:11 Rev. Brittany Right? 00:20:30:13 - 00:20:34:23 Rev. Trudy It only comes when we do the work. Just like the apostles. 00:20:35:02 - 00:20:36:10 Rev. Brittany Just like the apostles. 00:20:36:10 - 00:20:37:01 Rev. Trudy There you go. 00:20:37:04 - 00:20:47:13 Rev. Brittany So this feeling that I had, I had a believer's baptism. I was baptized when I was eight years old. After telling my pastor that I was ready to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal Savior. 00:20:47:13 - 00:20:49:08 Rev. Trudy And is that why they call it a believer's baptism? 00:20:49:08 - 00:20:50:22 Rev. Brittany That's why they call it a believer's baptism. 00:20:50:22 - 00:20:52:06 Rev. Trudy I don't know anything about that. 00:20:52:08 - 00:20:55:02 Rev. Trudy I was a cradle Methodist baptized out of the crib. 00:20:55:08 - 00:21:24:05 Rev. Brittany No ma'am. I had to tell them. Yeah, why? And who the Lord is to me. Yeah. And I remember feeling like, "all right, I'm ready to be baptized." But I'm eight years old, and I assume that once I get out of the water, I will be different. And I was not different. It was not an instantaneous change. But by being in my church and in my community, I learned the ways in which Christianity was to be a part of my life and integrated into my life. 00:21:24:07 - 00:21:45:04 Rev. Brittany And so, when I think of this Acts Two Church, I think that it's so ... that it is an ideal church because it's this idea of being held accountable in community to one another, to learn and to grow and to do the practices that might bring us closer to what God is calling us to. And that's to break bread together and to pray and to do all of those things. 00:21:45:04 - 00:21:50:19 Rev. Brittany And so it's not instantaneous, right? But it's the active work of what it means to be in community. 00:21:50:19 - 00:21:51:20 Rev. Trudy I think that's beautiful. 00:21:51:21 - 00:21:54:09 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:21:54:11 - 00:22:28:10 Rev. Trudy That's our perspective. We want to know yours. So we invite you to think about these questions: How do you envision the ideal church? Which of Jesus' teaching acts as acts teachings. Act two. Let me start over again with: Which of Jesus's teaching acts as your guiding light for living your faith? And: What have you learned from being in the community of faith? 00:22:28:12 - 00:23:03:09 Rev. Trudy I hope you will listen to us again next week and enjoy this podcast. This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries, and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org