00:00:00:00 - 00:00:40:10 Rev. Trudy Welcome to perspectives. A podcast for the clergy, women of the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. Welcome to Perspectives. I'm Reverend Trudy Robinson, and I am here with Reverend Brittany J. Hamlin, and we are discussing the Book of the Acts of the Apostles. We call it Acts, and we're looking at it as a way to understand what those first disciples did after the resurrection of Jesus, assuming that the resurrection impacted their lives for the better. 00:00:40:12 - 00:01:08:12 Rev. Trudy And we are hoping that their experiences might teach us something that will positively impact our lives in these days after the resurrection. And maybe teach us to become better human beings. Today, we're considering Acts chapter 1, verses 12 through the first part of 15, and then we're taking a break and picking it up again. Chapter 1, verse 21 through 26. 00:01:08:13 - 00:01:34:18 Rev. Trudy So here is what it begins with. "Then they, the disciples, returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. When they entered the city, they went to the upstairs room where they were staying. Peter, John, James and Andrew. Philip and Thomas. Bartholomew and Matthew. James, Alphaeus' son. Simon the Zealot, and Judas, James's son. 00:01:34:20 - 00:01:59:07 Rev. Trudy All were united in their devotion to prayer, along with some women, including Mary, the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. And during this time, the family of believers was a company of about 120 persons." Now, the next few verses, the part that we're skipping, have Peter speaking to the gathered community about Judas, the one who betrayed Jesus. 00:01:59:09 - 00:02:27:18 Rev. Trudy And he talks about the fate of Judas, what became of him. It's a horrific death. I will spare you those details. And then Peter begins to address the gathered community, saying that they need to give Judas, his position of leadership, to someone else. And so, it picks up with Peter saying, "Therefore, we must select one of those who have accompanied us during the whole time. 00:02:27:18 - 00:03:07:15 Rev. Trudy The Lord Jesus lived among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the days when Jesus was taken from us. This person must become along with us a witness to his resurrection. So they nominated two. Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. And then they prayed, Lord, you know everyone's deepest thoughts and desires. Show us clearly which one you have chosen from among these two, to take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from the from which Judas turned away, to go to his own place. 00:03:07:17 - 00:03:44:14 Rev. Trudy And when they cast lots, the lot fell on Matthias, and he was added to the 11 apostles." So this passage begins by naming the disciples the apostles at this point. And for anybody who's an avid reader of this scripture, you might recognize that this list in Acts aligns with what's in the Gospel of Luke, naming Simon Peter, Andrew, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon the Canaanian, Ian and Judas, son of James. 00:03:44:16 - 00:04:23:09 Rev. Trudy But for those avid readers, they know that the Gospel of Matthew has a slightly different person named Judas, son of James is named instead of Thaddeus. Now the tradition has merged those two names, calling the disciple Judas Thaddeus, or also Jude for short, to distinguish from the other Judas, right? Jude. Not to be confused with John Lennon's son Julian, for whom the song Hey Jude is written, right? 00:04:23:11 - 00:04:54:03 Rev. Trudy Not that one, not that one's a good song, though. So that I just point out, two things. I mean, it could very well be that the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, had different understandings of who the 12 were. And those discrepancies could have been, real. Yeah. but also to point out of our need to have the Bible tell one story and to harmonize everything. 00:04:54:03 - 00:05:20:04 Rev. Trudy So I don't really know what this category this falls into. But there's a discrepancy there. I just simply point that out. I like this. They named the 11 who are left. And then they say there were 120 more. And 120, I never think about at that moment in that Christian history that there were that many people. 00:05:20:06 - 00:05:52:18 Rev. Trudy But it makes me feel much better that Jesus spoke to thousands. And there were at least more than 12. Exactly. But I also think that part of what we get in this storytelling is, we begin to see, the way the community was really developing and really a picture of that, that of the development of the community, that the community of those who remember Jesus as the Messiah. 00:05:54:07 - 00:05:58:08 Rev. Trudy And. 00:05:58:10 - 00:06:32:11 Rev. Trudy The community is larger than we expected, and yet they need one more. They need one specifically to take the place of Judas. Some scholars have suggested, that, they needed 12, and they needed 12 to be leaders in a different way. And, part of that vision that we glimpse of the this, community really developing and growing was also a glimpse of the need for organization and structure. 00:06:32:11 - 00:07:04:18 Rev. Trudy Right? They needed to have somebody lead this crowd. And, 12 was an important number in Scripture. 12 represented the 12 tribes of Israel. 12 leaders reflected their ancestral roots. Judaism. Right. And so, 12 apostles would serve as witnesses to this messianic kingdom of God. So it made it makes sense. It's symbolic. As this community of followers of Jesus needed that structure. 00:07:04:19 - 00:07:36:13 Rev. Trudy I love that there were women following Jesus from the very beginning. It says right from the very beginning we see Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, Salome in this passage, though none of the women are specifically named, except for Mary, Jesus's mother, Joseph's wife. And really, the text is silent as to whether or not women could have fulfilled that 12 leadership position. 00:07:36:15 - 00:07:54:05 Rev. Trudy I think, you know, if there was a woman on that little thing, I think that might have created a completely different church. But that's just me. You guys can think about it, use your imagination, whatever you want. Right? I may be influenced by the fact that we have a full clergy women, clergy staff. 00:07:54:06 - 00:07:54:18 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:07:55:10 - 00:08:14:16 Rev. Trudy And it's been an amazing experience for me. And like any others I've had, I'll drop it at that. I still love the men. Let me just say that. Yeah. Right. Yes. But, it's interesting, though, that among the women who were there is Mary. 00:08:14:19 - 00:08:36:04 Rev. Brittany Yeah, I, my eyes perked up when I saw, obviously, that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was there. And obviously she was there with some other women, but it perked my interest as to one. Why was she there? Right. Why was Mary in Jerusalem at the time if her sons are still alive? Right. We can't. We don't know about Joseph, right? 00:08:36:05 - 00:09:03:01 Rev. Brittany Joseph is probably long gone. We can theorize about that, right? He was an older man. So he was probably gone. But Mary was protected by her sons, who were still living. So Jesus's death would have not necessarily outcast her, other than the fact that her son was crucified, which is the biggest outcast that one could have. But typically, she would be under the protection of her other sons. 00:09:03:01 - 00:09:32:20 Rev. Brittany But there, with her there, at this particular time in Jerusalem. And so, I also thought it was interesting, obviously, that the Gospel of Luke writer is the same author, for the Acts of the Apostles. And in the Gospel of Luke, the women's stories are highlighted throughout the Gospel of Luke. And it begins right with Jesus or with Mary having this experience with the angel that tells her, you're going to give birth to a son, right? 00:09:33:02 - 00:09:57:03 Rev. Brittany And so, Mary is there at Jesus's birth. She's there with him, right? She's there with him throughout his life. Right? She's looking for him when he's 12 years old in the temple. Right. Praying for her son. She's with him, you know, she sees him move on throughout his life and get older and move on and do his ministry as any mother does. 00:09:57:05 - 00:10:09:08 Rev. Brittany And then she does and experiences one of the most gut-wrenching experiences that any mother could experience, right? Is the death of her son. The crucifixion of Jesus. And she's pregnant. There it is. Death. 00:10:09:11 - 00:10:10:10 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. 00:10:10:10 - 00:10:55:06 Rev. Brittany She's present there at his death and then it made me think, well, Mary was present at the birth of Jesus, and now here is the birthing of the church. So Mary, being present at both the birth of Jesus and the birth of the church makes total and complete sense. Right? To to add to the continuity from the Gospel of Luke, there's also, a scholar from the University of Dayton by Bertrand Buby, and she or they say the birth of the church basically is the presentation of the power of the Holy Spirit of Jesus in the disciples, Mary, and the brethren of Jesus. 00:10:55:08 - 00:11:21:20 Rev. Brittany The life of Jesus was similarly announced by the power of the Holy Spirit upon Mary at the Annunciation. Both births occur beginning at each of Luke's writings through the action of the Holy Spirit. Right. So it's the action of the Holy Spirit. So when I think about this text and I think about the Bible and I think about women in general, women are at the center of these birthing stories, right? 00:11:22:09 - 00:11:47:03 Rev. Brittany When Jesus, when Mary gets the announcement that she's going to have Jesus, she goes to Elizabeth, right? Women are there at these very critical points. And so the women being there at the birth of the church makes absolute sense. And it's a subtle connection. And if you don't have your eyes open, you might miss the fact that the women were there and that Mary was there. 00:11:47:05 - 00:11:53:19 Rev. Brittany And we hear conversations about whether or not women should be leaders in the Church. Right. We have our own personal experiences with that. 00:11:53:21 - 00:11:54:10 Rev. Trudy That's another. 00:11:54:10 - 00:12:17:12 Rev. Brittany Podcast. That is another podcast or the role of women in the world in the role of women in church in particular. And then I'm reminded that women's leadership is nothing new. Women were at the tomb first, right? Well, while everybody else was contemplating and distraught. Right. The women were going to do the active work to bring dignity back to Jesus's body by anointing it. 00:12:17:13 - 00:12:35:18 Rev. Brittany And they get to the tomb and he is not there. So there is no church without the women, right? And the Holy Spirit knows that. And the writer wants to make this point to include women for this very reason, to acknowledge that. And so, the Holy Spirit gives life to both Jesus and gives life to the church. And the women are there for both. 00:12:35:18 - 00:12:36:04 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:12:36:09 - 00:12:37:18 Rev. Trudy Yeah. That's beautiful. 00:12:37:19 - 00:12:58:10 Rev. Brittany Yeah, I thought so. I said, well, look at the women. And then I thought also about what it means for those women who are already outcast to a certain extent. Right. There is second class citizens in society, but also to be a part of a second class group as Jewish folks who are living in a Roman ruled community. 00:12:58:12 - 00:13:21:11 Rev. Brittany So I was like, oh my goodness. And now not only are they Jews who live in a Roman governed community, but now they are Jews who have followed this new leader, Jesus. So they have, you know, there's so many dimensions, right? And this is where intersectionality comes in if we're paying attention. And so the apostles and the women, they were part of this marginalized group. 00:13:21:12 - 00:13:42:17 Rev. Brittany And more than anything, they their, survival, right, depends upon each other. It depends upon belonging to one another. Right. And it's just like when Jesus was on the cross and he tells, you know, Peter, this is your mother, right? John? John, get me, get me, get it. There you go. Somebody. Here you go. It was a disciple, John. 00:13:42:19 - 00:13:44:05 Rev. Brittany Cuz Peter was gone. Peter was hiding. 00:13:44:06 - 00:13:48:03 Rev. Trudy Peter was denied by the fire. Yeah. Anyways, you gotta. 00:13:48:03 - 00:14:10:02 Rev. Brittany Tell John, you know this is your son, or this is your mother, and this is your son to his mother. Right. And that was the forming of this new community, this new pledge that they were having with one another. And so thinking about those folks who are on the margins, essentially, they're living in these most dangerous circumstances and without each other, without the connection that they have with each other, they would not have been able to survive. 00:14:10:07 - 00:14:37:12 Rev. Brittany And if they didn't survive, then the Church as we know it wouldn't exist today. Then I also thought about the other thread that ties them together is their devotion to prayer, right? The text says their devotion to prayer united them and so prayer is essentially just having a conversation with God. And so, their willingness to have a conversation with God is what tied them together. 00:14:37:12 - 00:14:46:20 Rev. Brittany What brought them together in this community, living in very dangerous times. Right. They're hiding in plain sight, essentially. 00:14:47:19 - 00:15:18:06 Rev. Brittany So then I also got to thinking again, right. These people have been through so much. Mary, the disciples, Jesus's brothers, I mean, everybody is just dealing with so much trauma. And then they get to a place where now they have to replace Judas, someone who they love, but someone who they're very angry with. And now they have to make space to welcome someone else into their community and to give them the authority, right, to essentially do the same thing that Judas did. 00:15:18:06 - 00:15:33:07 Rev. Brittany Right? Because when we trust people, we are trusting and hoping that they will, you know, meet us where we are and to do the things that we might have, you know, that God might want us to do. But free will is there. And they still had hearts that were open. And I thought, well, where did they get that? 00:15:33:07 - 00:15:36:16 Rev. Brittany And then it's like, of course, Brittany, they got it from Jesus. 00:15:36:18 - 00:15:38:01 Rev. Trudy Right? Right. 00:15:38:03 - 00:15:59:16 Rev. Brittany That Jesus was willing to welcome Judas even. No. Even though he knew what Jesus would, what Judas would do, Jesus welcomed him in. And I think that this point for the disciples, they have really no choice but to open themselves up to the possibility of growing and beginning to embrace and welcome people in. If the church is to grow, they could have stayed with the 11. 00:15:59:16 - 00:16:08:10 Rev. Brittany But like you said, the number 12 is more significant. But even beyond that, to be called up out to do something different is really important. 00:16:08:12 - 00:16:31:02 Rev. Trudy It really is remarkable to think about how much trust they had to have, right, in order to rely on everybody else. And perhaps they had no choice. And perhaps it was their faith and their strong belief in God and what God was doing in the world or could do in the world that really helped them trust. 00:16:31:07 - 00:17:01:04 Rev. Trudy But it's remarkable to think about that word. I love the whole process that they engaged in to choose the replacement. It seems as though the, you know, the text says that they had two nominees and they were moving those two people up in this process. And it sounds almost like that those two nominees were chosen by the full group, gathered their full 120 of them. 00:17:01:06 - 00:17:18:18 Rev. Trudy It doesn't really specify it could be read either way. I can't imagine what that would look like, though. If 120 people are trying to choose one thing, right. It must be a little bit like the United Methodist Churches General Conference trying to choose, you know, electing bishops or whatever. Right. Are you. 00:17:18:18 - 00:17:19:06 Rev. Brittany Going gonna say. 00:17:19:08 - 00:17:45:00 Rev. Trudy Oh, yeah, it's very Methodist. Exactly. Very democratic. It's really an interesting thing. Yeah. And in assuming that, the 120 people gathered there and they were the ones that nominated people, I would think that there were probably more than 12 or, excuse me, more than two that were suggested, but we only hear that that two were brought to be pushed forward. 00:17:45:02 - 00:18:04:09 Rev. Trudy And it makes me think, well, why couldn't they just go ahead and continue to eliminate and get down to one? Right, right. They got that far. But then I have watched bishops get elected and it's rather so I maybe it does make perfect sense, but they get to the point where there are two and they pray back to your point. 00:18:04:11 - 00:18:31:01 Rev. Trudy They turn to God and they pray "show us clearly which one Lord." And then I love this part. Then they cast lots. We just like rolling the die. Highest number wins or a coin toss. Heads you win, tails you lose. You know. In the ancient world, lots were cast by using different colored or marked stones. You know, one color indicated 00:18:31:01 - 00:18:53:19 Rev. Trudy "Yes" the other, "No." One color indicated it was "good," it was "bad." You were selected or you were rejected. Right. Or they could have used broken pieces of pottery on which they actually wrote outcomes. That whichever one popped up, that would be the one. It, you know, casting lots for the next leader of this nascent church. 00:18:54:03 - 00:19:22:12 Rev. Trudy Seems like you're taking your chances a little bit. You know, it's a game of chance. I would think. That's tricky, that's tricky. I and then, I remembered, a professor that once was lecturing, and he was talking about the way in which we often, people of faith often, just really struggle about what the will of God is and want to make sure we're doing the will of God. 00:19:22:12 - 00:19:39:23 Rev. Trudy Right. And we spend a lot of time worrying. And often, he pointed out, that there's more than one right answer, right? There's more than one good way to go. And he concluded in this lecture that sometimes he thinks God just says to us, "just surprise me." 00:19:40:01 - 00:19:42:03 Rev. Brittany That's a different way. 00:19:42:03 - 00:19:42:20 Rev. Trudy Of right, but. 00:19:42:21 - 00:19:44:03 Rev. Brittany Kind of relieving I. 00:19:44:03 - 00:20:12:10 Rev. Trudy Love. Right. Exactly. I love that it honors both our free will as well as the interactive relationship between God and us. Right, God? God doesn't want us to do just one thing. God wants to see where we might take things and then meet us there and move us forward. And that interaction, we do it together. For us, casting lots leaves a lot to chance. 00:20:13:07 - 00:20:46:05 Rev. Trudy Which got me thinking about the many, the element of chance in Jesus's ministry. Right. He had chance encounters, right, throughout his ministry. The woman at the well, Zacchaeus in the tree. The man lowered through the roof to be healed, feeding thousands, with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish. You know, it seems that Jesus had a very loose itinerary, a very, very loose, schedule or plan really. 00:20:47:13 - 00:21:18:04 Rev. Trudy That's not me. Really? That's not me. I have a plan for everything. I didn't know, I have a to do list that I check off every week. I schedule phone calls with friends. Right. Anything unexpected that pops up during my day is an interruption, right? And, it would seem, though, that for Jesus, the interruptions was the ministry. 00:21:19:04 - 00:21:51:10 Rev. Trudy And maybe the ministry of the disciples would also be determined by chance as well. That's what my 21st century perspective throws onto this casting lots. But the ancient world actually understood casting lots as a form of divination. You know, God's will was revealed through, however that was, so God controlled the roll of the dice, right. And we actually see it in other spots, parts of scripture. 00:21:51:12 - 00:22:16:09 Rev. Trudy The conquered lands of Canaan were divided among the Israelites by lot. Yeah, the sin of Jonah was determined to be the source of the storm threatening the ship because they cast lots and it told them so. Casting lots was intimately connected with the Israelite temple practices, and they assigned temple duties. We see that in the story of Zechariah. 00:22:16:09 - 00:22:49:07 Rev. Trudy The lot said that he was going to be the one there in the temple that day. Proverbs 16 verse 33 says, "the lot is cast into the lap, but the decision is from the Lord." Which for me, all of this has me wonder, so what is God's will? Is it so controlling that God cares about the way that dice lands? 00:22:49:09 - 00:23:18:05 Rev. Trudy Right? I read a book early in my seminary, career. Reverend Leslie Weatherhead wrote a series of sermons that became a book on the will of God. And it was, his sermons were a response to, the bombing, the unrelenting bombing of London during World War II by Nazi Germany. And his congregation was wondering, is this the will of God? 00:23:18:05 - 00:23:42:10 Rev. Trudy What? There's so much destruction. I don't understand. Right. And so, this series of sermons became that book. And it's a classic in Christian theology. And Weatherhead identifies, three different kinds of will and sounds Wesleyan a little bit, three different types of grace. Right. Very systematic. They planned for it. Right? Didn't leave that to chance. 00:23:42:10 - 00:23:44:02 Rev. Brittany I did not. 00:23:44:04 - 00:24:16:16 Rev. Trudy But whether Weatherhead identifies God's intentional will, God's circumstantial will, and God's ultimate will. And simply put, God's intentional will or God's will of intention is wishing only what is good for the people. It's like a love of a parent. That's my will. I want only good things for you. That intention will help us know what the will of God might be. 00:24:16:18 - 00:24:51:14 Rev. Trudy Right? The will of God's, excuse me, of circumstantial will, is God's will suggesting that circumstances cause what happens. Right, right. So, it takes into account that sometimes bad has happened because people sin or people do actions that cause it to happen then. And it's God's will to have us suffer the consequences of the choices we make. 00:24:51:19 - 00:25:25:20 Rev. Trudy Right? But then there's the ultimate will. Will that seeks to use bad events that were not God's intentional will for God's ultimate purpose, like the crucifixion, right, and the resurrection. The ultimate will of God. So, I think, you know, casting lots for who replaces the next apostle. It's a funny thing for me with my vision here, my, perspective. 00:25:26:09 - 00:25:41:03 Rev. Trudy But in truth, the disciples had done a lot of preparation to make sure that whatever way the lot was cast, that's the one, whichever outcome was going to be a pretty good one. Yeah. 00:25:41:05 - 00:26:00:01 Rev. Brittany I mean, they pray right before they do it. And I think that all those connections. Right. Or having the conversation with God. I think, yeah, that's how you do it. Right. That it's chance. But it's also inviting God into what might be whatever lot is cast. Right. 00:26:00:06 - 00:26:01:07 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:26:01:09 - 00:26:29:17 Rev. Brittany So, I was, as we were talking and preparing, I was thinking about the requirements that they had. That these disciples have. Right. So, Peter says that we need someone who has been with us since the beginning. We need someone who is a believer in the crucifixion. Right. So that you can witness and testify. And so I started to think about the crowds that had been following Jesus or the crowd as it grew, that it followed Jesus throughout his ministry. 00:26:29:17 - 00:26:52:05 Rev. Brittany Right. And we know we've talked about the 12 disciples that were set apart to be leaders, right? They were set apart to do something different within the crowd. Right. But there are still those who were in the crowd. So Jesus had many who claim to be his followers, which is essentially a disciple, essentially an apostle. Right. 00:26:52:07 - 00:27:13:21 Rev. Brittany So what were the requirements? What made it different? Right. And it's this idea that sometimes when we are in a group, there are requirements that we have in the group, right? If we think about the church. Right. We have folks that come to church and they are a part of this church, right? They're just like those who are in the crowd with Jesus. 00:27:13:21 - 00:27:27:18 Rev. Brittany They are part. And then there are those who said, "I want to join this community," right. "And bring my time, my talent and my treasure here. And in that way, I am a part of this community in a deeper way." Right? 00:27:27:18 - 00:27:29:00 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:27:29:02 - 00:27:57:10 Rev. Brittany There are requirements that we, as institutions, have and there are requirements that Jesus has, right. And there are requirements that we have in these particular communities. And so Matthias and Justus had been there. I mean, they had to have been there, right, because they met the requirements. This is what they did. And sometimes, I think that in order for us to be chosen or to be a part or to belong in anything, that we have to be willing to be a part, right? 00:27:57:12 - 00:28:18:08 Rev. Brittany You, even if you're not chosen yet or even if you're not chosen to, you know, be the disciple that's one of the 12. Is it important enough of a mission for you to follow and to be a part of even if you're not the one that's right in the front doing that work? Because the work that you're doing is just as important, right? 00:28:18:14 - 00:28:40:17 Rev. Brittany The 120 that are still there are still the ones that form the church, right? So they're being. They're belonging. Their presence is very important. And without them, the church also wouldn't be able to grow and to flourish. And so, we have these particular requirements of us in our groups and in the communities that we are a part of. 00:28:40:17 - 00:28:57:22 Rev. Brittany Right. Yeah. So, and then I was also thinking about what it means to be called from, you know. I think when I talk, when we talk, about big churches, sometimes people say, "you know, I don't want to be called out. I like going to a big church because it's anonymous. And I can just kind of sit there." 00:28:57:22 - 00:29:32:20 Rev. Brittany Right. But then we have a way of not making you anonymous and finding our way to kind of greet you. That's the goal. But there is this idea of being a part of a group without wanting to be called out or selected. And I think as Christians, when we make the commitment to say that we're following Christ, then we are signing up, right, to be a part of something that we belong to, which means there are things that we're going to have to do and ways in which our leadership is going to have to evolve, even when we're in the crowd and even when we're called out of the crowd to do 00:29:32:20 - 00:29:33:15 Rev. Brittany something different. 00:29:33:15 - 00:29:58:14 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fascinating idea just to see the Church growing. This is at a time when there were no gospels, right? There was no book, there was no New Testament. Right. So 120 people were there. And they didn't have doctrine. 00:29:58:20 - 00:29:59:14 Rev. Brittany Right. 00:29:59:16 - 00:30:16:10 Rev. Trudy They were probably all coming at the experience of Jesus from all sorts of different ideas. And I think, people these days, feel like membership or belonging to something or a church, they have to buy everything right? 00:30:16:12 - 00:30:16:19 Rev. Brittany Right. 00:30:17:00 - 00:30:46:06 Rev. Trudy They have to believe they have to be in the same box as everybody else. And that's just not the case. And it wasn't then. Right. And it would be lovely to think that for belonging these days, it, in whatever it is, to be able to understand that diversity that is there. And for the Church to be, to belong to, to enter into a trusting relationship. 00:30:46:06 - 00:31:17:10 Rev. Trudy Right. That my difference from your difference is not going to make me a bad person and outside because I'm not you. Right? Right. But if the Holy Spirit would bring us to that place to trust, those differences are a beautiful thing. And there's so many possibilities that can come from engaging in that way. And we can trust if we're all trying to be better. 00:31:17:12 - 00:31:49:05 Rev. Brittany And that's the, it's the Holy Spirit, to me, that binds us together in that uniqueness. Right. And it's the Holy Spirit that calls us from out of the crowd to be together. Right? It's the Holy Spirit that calls us to do that thing. And I think that when we are open to that, right, when we're open to actually believing that the Holy Spirit is actively doing something in our lives and in the Church, then, like the disciples, we might open ourselves to trust that it may not look like we had wanted it to look, but that God is still working. 00:31:49:05 - 00:32:01:13 Rev. Trudy That's right, that's right. And that the Holy Spirit, can move us. Granted, the Holy Spirit is a scary kind of thing because you never know where the Holy Spirit will move us. 00:32:01:15 - 00:32:02:09 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:32:02:11 - 00:32:31:08 Rev. Trudy But the cross right? Well, right there is that. Yeah. That's absolutely. But to be able to allow the Holy Spirit to move us, not only to belong but to maybe be open to leadership, or if not leadership, at least enough involvement so that you really get the most out of that relationship. 00:32:31:08 - 00:32:37:02 Rev. Trudy Right? I belong to a gym, but if I never go, I'm not getting much out of it. 00:32:37:04 - 00:32:40:12 Rev. Brittany I belong to many gyms, and let's just. 00:32:40:12 - 00:32:42:17 Rev. Trudy Say, there you go. 00:32:42:19 - 00:32:44:07 Rev. Brittany I didn't get much. 00:32:44:07 - 00:32:55:07 Rev. Trudy That's right, I did not. And I don't know about you, but I know I have had many a Saturday night or Sunday morning thinking, "if only I could just stay in bed." 00:32:56:00 - 00:33:00:04 Rev. Trudy Never, never, never. You go. You're the number one clergy. You never. 00:33:00:04 - 00:33:00:13 Rev. Brittany One. 00:33:00:13 - 00:33:09:23 Rev. Trudy Okay, well, I'm, it happens to us, too. And. But every time I go, I'm thinking. "I'm really glad that I'm here." Yeah. 00:33:10:01 - 00:33:11:19 Rev. Brittany That's the gift of the Holy Spirit. 00:33:11:20 - 00:33:29:06 Rev. Trudy That is, it really is. That's worth trusting in. Yeah. For sure. That's our perspective. We wonder what yours is. And we invite you to consider some of these questions as you think about it. How oh do you want to say something more. 00:33:29:08 - 00:33:35:20 Rev. Brittany No. Go ahead. Yes. Take it over. No, I don't, go ahead, Reverend. 00:33:35:22 - 00:33:39:23 Rev. Trudy I forgot we had said that she would talk about the questions, but I was just on a roll. 00:33:39:23 - 00:33:41:12 Rev. Brittany She's on her. So now I'm doing. 00:33:41:12 - 00:33:44:17 Rev. Trudy You do it. You. What are the questions? We should be thinking about? 00:33:44:18 - 00:34:08:04 Rev. Brittany Questions that we're thinking. How do you understand God's will as a disciple of Jesus? How important is it to engage in chance encounters? Speak about a time in your own life when you've been singled out for replacement or for leadership. And, what are ways that you feel that you belong in the church? We hope to hear from you soon. 00:34:08:06 - 00:34:37:20 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries, and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org