00:00:00:08 - 00:00:31:01 Rev. Hannah Today's topic is love. Was Mary's love only for her child? Or was it bigger than that? In the Magnificat, she sings of the world turned upside down. The hungry are filled. The forgotten are remembered. It's a lesser-known song of Christmas. And it asks us a question: What does that kind of love mean today? Let's listen. 00:00:31:01 - 00:00:43:08 Rev. Trudy Welcome to Perspectives, a podcast where the clergy women at the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. 00:00:43:09 - 00:01:13:04 Rev. Hannah Welcome to Perspectives. I'm Reverend Hannah here with Reverend Brittany Juliette Hanlin. Thanks for joining us for episode three of Our Advent Mixtape. We're exploring the hidden tracks of Scripture, the lesser-known songs that shape this season. Today we turn to Mary's prophetic song, the Magnificat, from Luke chapter one, verses 46 through 55. 00:01:13:05 - 00:01:53:03 Rev. Hannah We are glad that you are joining us today. And, are you ready to hear it? The Scripture is bold, long, and a little prophetic and here is how the song goes: "My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. For he has looked with favor on the lowly state of his servant. Surely from now on, all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name indeed. His mercy is for those who fear him. 00:01:53:08 - 00:02:28:07 Rev. Hannah From generation to generation, he has shown strength with his arm. He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He has brought down the powerful from their thrones and lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich away empty. He has come to the aid of his child Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, according to the promise he made to our ancestors, to Abraham and to his descendants forever." 00:02:28:09 - 00:02:29:06 Rev. Brittany Forever. 00:02:29:08 - 00:02:31:12 Rev. Hannah So, Reverend Brittany! 00:02:31:14 - 00:02:32:09 Rev. Brittany Reverend Hannah! 00:02:32:09 - 00:02:34:00 Rev. Hannah What do you think? 00:02:34:01 - 00:03:00:15 Rev. Brittany I think a lot about Mary. I mean, she's such a pivotal figure in the Christian faith, right? The mother of Jesus. But before I get to our Magnificat, I always think about how could she sing? You know, this song of praise, right? And so, my favorite part of Mary in Luke chapter 1 is that she's questioning. Right? The Angel Gabriel, when he appears to her. 00:03:00:15 - 00:03:19:22 Rev. Brittany Yes. And she's like, "what do you mean? How could this be? Like, what are you talking about?" But then she accepts the message and receives the message. But just like any, I think, extrovert in a way, right. She had to process this information in some way, right? She had to process this information. So she runs to her cousin Elizabeth. 00:03:19:22 - 00:03:42:07 Rev. Brittany Right. And I ... that is so heartwarming to me because I think that when good things happen, or surprising things happen, or even sometimes things that we're not expecting happened, it's important for us to have a community, at least someone that we can go and talk to about that thing, right? And so, after Mary has this conversation with her cousin Elizabeth, like, I call you Hannah Elizabeth Ka. 00:03:42:08 - 00:04:03:07 Rev. Brittany She goes through her cousin Elizabeth, and after, she has this moment with her of expressing how she feels. And Elizabeth, you know, assures her, right? Then Mary can sing this song of praise. Right? So it took her questioning, then accepting and receiving, and then being assured by someone else before this song of praise could be sang. 00:04:03:12 - 00:04:27:13 Rev. Brittany And so, I always think of that. I also think it's such beautiful language when she says, "my soul magnifies the Lord, my soul rejoices in my God, my Savior. For he has looked with favor on the lowliness of his servant." And for me, I don't necessarily know that I would be singing that God is ... I, my soul magnifies God in this situation. 00:04:27:15 - 00:04:48:22 Rev. Brittany I love Mary because she's so "I can handle this" and I would be panicked. You know what I mean? Like, I get a flat tire and I'm running around crazy. You know what I mean? And I'm like, "God, why did you do this?" And it's like, "God had nothing to do with that. Calm down." But Mary is like, this thing is happening to her so unexpectedly, she's not necessarily prepared for it, but still she can see the goodness of God in it. 00:04:48:23 - 00:05:24:11 Rev. Hannah Yes. And she starts her song with very personal note, right? But the rest of the song is not personal anymore. So, she's this most vulnerable girl. Not sure about her future and how the society will accept her. And she goes to see another socially-vulnerable cousin. And being assured by her presence and her words and her embrace and affirming, welcoming spirit, she starts singing about God's presence in her life. 00:05:24:12 - 00:05:30:03 Rev. Hannah And then she goes beyond that, right, expanding her scope. 00:05:30:05 - 00:05:36:17 Rev. Hannah To see the world where God is in it while her situation hasn't changed a bit. 00:05:36:18 - 00:05:59:08 Rev. Brittany Right. It's like she ... Yeah. It's like she goes from talking about herself, but then realizing that she's also a part of this bigger microcosm of the world and that her situation also reflects the plight of her people. Right? That she is just a representative of what's going on in the rest of the world... well, in the rest of her community. 00:05:59:08 - 00:06:22:12 Rev. Hannah Yes. So it was a no brainer for her to think of God present in her life, in her, in the midst of her struggles. And now sings, God who is present in all those upside down world. Hoping that God and trusting that God would turn that world into the right way. 00:06:22:12 - 00:06:44:21 Rev. Brittany Yeah. And when I think about that, you know, she mentioned the ancestors, right. She mentions Abraham and, you know, the past generations. And I think when I think about Advent, we are acknowledging the past. We're waiting for what is to be, but also realizing that it has already been right. And I think that that's what Mary is doing here. 00:06:45:02 - 00:07:01:12 Rev. Brittany She's talking about the past of her people. She's also living with her current situation. And her current, you know, being pregnant with Jesus, will birth something new into the world for future generations. But that same God is the constant thread throughout it all. Yes. 00:07:01:13 - 00:07:33:18 Rev. Hannah Yeah and that consistent presence. Presence in the midst of inconsistencies. And one of the beautiful thing about her mentioned her bringing the old and the present and new hope is that it's not her sentimental song. It's not her sentimental tone. But it's more of prophetic and theological proclamation that God has been doing this in the past and God is doing it with me. 00:07:33:20 - 00:07:40:07 Rev. Hannah I'm not sure how certain she was when she said that, but she sees God everywhere. 00:07:40:11 - 00:07:40:19 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:07:40:23 - 00:07:50:12 Rev. Hannah Challenging the status quo and bringing God's love to those who had been marginalized in the past. 00:07:50:13 - 00:08:13:07 Rev. Brittany And she's not ... you know, sometimes egos can get in the way of really seeing God. But Mary isn't like proclaiming this out of her ego. Like "God has chosen me to do this thing," right? No, it's not it's not like that at all. It's like, "wow, God. You see the suffering of your people and you care." 00:08:13:07 - 00:08:25:17 Rev. Brittany Yes. You know, "you acknowledge the injustice of the world and you care, and you are using me as a vessel," right, "to help bridge that gap and make this world a better place." 00:08:25:17 - 00:08:49:12 Rev. Hannah Yes. And as a pregnant woman, teenage mom, we don't know who the father is here in this story. She embraces all those answers, certainties and all those frightening factors in her life and still find some joy in it. Yeah, so she's a good embracer of her reality, but I also see God in it as well. 00:08:49:13 - 00:09:15:04 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I mean, really, Mary's in a dangerous situation, right? To be an unwed pregnant woman. She's in it. She's precariously perched. You know what I mean? She is precariously buried. You know, in a society that would kill her, essentially. You know what I mean? Because of this grave sin. And yet still, even though through the dangers, the toils, and snares. 00:09:15:04 - 00:09:42:12 Rev. Brittany Right? Right. She sings. Right? She sings and that, to me, is the prophetic word, right? It's not necessarily all that she says. It's the fact that she sings in the midst of being precariously perched in a society that she has no real balance in. You know what I mean? She can't necessarily get her footing. And yet she still decides that she will sing. 00:09:42:13 - 00:10:10:20 Rev. Hannah Yes. And the first time I came to this church, I started singing and humming every time I was nervous. And people here didn't know that I sing when I'm nervous. So they thought that I was ready for preaching, I was ready for ministry. I was ready for everything. But in reality ... Sometimes ... don't you ever like, sing? 00:10:10:22 - 00:10:12:15 Rev. Hannah You can take the call afterward. 00:10:12:15 - 00:10:14:10 Rev. Brittany I can definitely take that afterwards. 00:10:14:10 - 00:10:33:09 Rev. Hannah When you go through, like a scary time, when you have sleepless night and when you worry about things. Don't you sing some songs? Even if that's not your reality? Hoping and praying that that would be the case? 00:10:33:11 - 00:10:55:10 Rev. Brittany For sure. I remember, someone would tell me, like, if you, you know, in my younger days, they would say, "if you if you listen to love songs, love will come to you" type thing and it's like, okay. But then it was like, "okay, well, I'm going to listen to them anyway because it's like, it might not be this particular situation now, but I like the song and what it's saying." 00:10:55:16 - 00:11:08:14 Rev. Brittany So yes, I have. You sing and hum. I feel like, I just have one little phrase that comes out when I'm nervous ... the "happy birthday, Jesus." You know, that's it. 00:11:08:16 - 00:11:44:04 Rev. Hannah That's what I heard a thousand times. That's like my song. Yeah. Yes. And in these songs, we are recognizing that God's love is always faithful. And even when we are not ready to receive it, God's love is out there. And God's love ... sometimes we humans react to situations, react to pregnancy, react to certain things that we fear. But God's love is not reactive. 00:11:44:06 - 00:11:56:14 Rev. Hannah It's a promise. Made to us. And being present in us. And yeah, it's a beautiful thing. 00:11:56:16 - 00:12:08:18 Rev. Brittany It is. I think that, again, Mary's ability to sing in the midst of a hard situ is a hard pill to swallow. Is beautiful. 00:12:08:20 - 00:12:09:06 Rev. Hannah Yes. 00:12:09:11 - 00:12:32:11 Rev. Brittany I hope that I will become like Mary in that way. Yes. You know that I can still believe in the good. Right. Even when things don't make sense to me, or I feel uncertain or unprepared. You know, I, as much as I'm like a procrastinator, I still like to be prepared. You know, like, I still like to have all my ducks in a row, and sometimes it just doesn't happen that way. 00:12:32:13 - 00:12:58:07 Rev. Brittany You just have to be able to, like, move through it. And I find myself more ... sometimes I can find myself more pessimistic or realist than I find myself hopeful and in the idea that God's love will make all things new and make it all right. Because I'm like, "well, why didn't God do it?" 00:12:58:07 - 00:13:16:02 Rev. Brittany You know what I mean? "I ain't gotta do it then." But see, looking back and like realizing that Mary is talking not only, like I said, about the past or she's not only talking about the present, but she's also talking about the past and looking to her ancestors and their stories of survival and resistance and how love showed up in their lives. 00:13:16:04 - 00:13:18:15 Rev. Brittany She knows that she can make it through this. 00:13:18:16 - 00:13:19:04 Rev. Hannah Yes. 00:13:19:04 - 00:13:20:00 Rev. Brittany You know. 00:13:20:00 - 00:13:44:13 Rev. Hannah And by saying so, she's broadening our perspective. We are often the shortsighted. We are often nearsighted. We see the problems in front of us, but we don't remember the past, our own past as well as the past of our ancestors, and how humanity came this far. And we don't see what's going to happen beyond us. 00:13:44:13 - 00:13:44:22 Rev. Brittany Right. 00:13:45:02 - 00:14:13:17 Rev. Hannah And we are very nearsighted throughout our lifespan, but there are generations and generations that will come afterwards. So, if we expand our horizon and see God working through every generation – that's why she mentions from generations to generations – and we see a little part of the expansive love of God. 00:14:13:17 - 00:14:14:08 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:14:14:10 - 00:14:49:12 Rev. Hannah And being present in that moment, with whatever hope and love that sustains you on that day, will be a part of the whole story. Yeah. So, it doesn't have to be my name. Be remembered. But it has to be a part of that history, God's history, that will carry us through. And it's the anticipation of the past, anticipation of the present, and anticipation of future that connects our humanity together. 00:14:49:16 - 00:14:51:07 Rev. Hannah Yeah. And carries us through. 00:14:51:11 - 00:15:18:20 Rev. Brittany And it just. Yeah, it reminds us that we are not entities in and of ourselves, that we are connected to a much larger community than we even know. Right. And so, in Mary's prayer, Mary song, Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord." Right? In Hannah's song in first Samuel – another, you know, descendant of this group in Israel, Hannah said in her prayer: My heart exalts the Lord." 00:15:19:02 - 00:15:39:18 Rev. Brittany "My strength is exalted in my God." Right. So Hannah's prayer mirrors ... and which came first? Well, so, Mary's song mirrors a great deal of what Hannah had prayed and said, you know. And she goes on to talk about the Lord makes the poor ... "The Lord makes the poor and makes the rich, and he brings the low and exalts." 00:15:39:20 - 00:16:00:05 Rev. Brittany "He also raises up the poor from dust and lifts up the needy from the ash heap." This is very similar. God's presence lifting up those who are oppressed or those who are suffering. Right? To remember that your current situation is not what God thinks of it. Yes. Or what God thinks of you. 00:16:00:07 - 00:16:32:03 Rev. Hannah Yes. And that's the beauty of the Gospel of Luke. And Luke portrays Mary as a theologian and a historian who remembers the past. I think when she was in deep trouble, she reminded herself of those two women or other people who had gone through much bigger trouble and look back on their faith. And that becomes your song, her song as well. 00:16:32:05 - 00:16:33:23 Rev. Brittany That's why I think she ran to Elizabeth. 00:16:34:01 - 00:16:58:12 Rev. Hannah Yes. Yes. So, there is that historical connection. There is that contemporary connection that brings people, brings the dead and the living into a community, and that makes your current situation your personal trouble part of the communal redemption. And there is that beauty in this. 00:16:58:14 - 00:17:19:19 Rev. Brittany I love that – the bridging together of the dead and the living and reminding ourselves that our struggles are connected to the communal struggles of the people that came before us, generations that passed, and our communal struggles are connected through the people who will come from us and after us. 00:17:19:21 - 00:17:48:11 Rev. Hannah And I love thinking about the future stories of that person's life. We know that Mary's life is not an easy peasy life field. Her struggle as a mom will be forever. But, she was surrounded by the community of good women. Like Elizabeth. And probably a lot of other women as she raises baby Jesus. 00:17:48:12 - 00:18:06:00 Rev. Hannah As he goes through a lot of challenging stages. And there is that beauty of community as we try to embrace and embody God's faithfulness in us. 00:18:06:02 - 00:18:33:21 Rev. Brittany And there are things that parents have – mothers and fathers. But there's a distinction that mothers have as mothers that fathers won't necessarily understand. And there's a distinction as fathers that fathers have that mothers don't understand. So, sometimes it's being in a community where people who understand your struggles and what you're going through is so important because you need that affirmation and that accountability and that support to do that work. 00:18:33:23 - 00:19:04:10 Rev. Hannah Yeah. Yeah. So, in a way that the song and Mary's situation and Mary's building communities gives us a new insight about our anticipation of the Advent. And this is how often do we see Christmas as a personal family holiday? Yeah. And what does Christmas mean for us? And what does this waiting for the advent, mean for us, for our faith communities? 00:19:04:15 - 00:19:23:05 Rev. Brittany Yeah, I think that we ... the words of Advent ... I don't ... I think we all hear them, but the depth of them in relation to what we're talking about in relation of God's work in the world ... sometimes I think we're so focused on the Christmas tree is that we forget about like ... 00:19:23:05 - 00:19:24:05 Rev. Hannah In each family! 00:19:24:05 - 00:19:50:04 Rev. Brittany In each family, right? We forget about the depth of God's work in the world and how it should enliven us to believe that God is doing something new in the world and that no matter what's happening, "the principalities that be," as folks say, or the, you know, "those who are high up on the throne," none of that matters in God's beloved community. 00:19:50:06 - 00:19:54:07 Rev. Brittany God's always doing the work of love. Always. 00:19:54:08 - 00:20:19:19 Rev. Hannah Yes. And have you ever imagined a world where Mary's song comes true? The reality that the powerful is brought down and the lowly is lifted up, and the hungry are fed, and the rich turned away empty. All those reversal, of the world's social order. 00:20:19:19 - 00:20:24:19 Rev. Brittany Exactly. Exactly. Mary has a lot to say about that. 00:20:24:20 - 00:20:52:06 Rev. Hannah Yes. In those short verses, nine of them, Mary reimagines the world. Because she embraced this reality and she's welcoming this baby child. And as a mother, I never imagined the world to be different because I'm giving birth to a child. And she has a lot of hope and trust in this baby. 00:20:52:06 - 00:20:53:20 Rev. Hannah Yeah. 00:20:53:22 - 00:21:12:18 Rev. Brittany Just hope and trust in this baby and hope and trust in the God who created that child. Right. That his life will not be in vain. You know that her struggles won't be in vain, that the struggles of her people won't be in vain because God is still at work. 00:21:12:20 - 00:21:13:14 Rev. Brittany That's beautiful. 00:21:13:15 - 00:21:48:06 Rev. Hannah Yes. And this baby will be part of what God will be doing for the world and of time. Oftentimes ... how often do we see ourselves as the center of the universe and us completing and accomplishing something big for the world? But that mindset has to, is switched in the song. That we are bits and parts of God's transforming love here. 00:21:48:08 - 00:22:01:02 Rev. Brittany So, I love that. I love Mary. I just, I love Mary. I wish we could hear from her more in the Gospels. But I'm glad that we get to hear her song. Yes. 00:22:01:04 - 00:22:04:12 Rev. Hannah Well this conversation has been fun. 00:22:04:13 - 00:22:09:11 Rev. Brittany It has been fun. Okay. Reverend Hannah Elizabeth Ka. 00:22:09:11 - 00:22:18:07 Rev. Hannah And Mary, the Mother of my Lord. I haven't used that in a long time. Yes. So, are you ready to poll some quiz? 00:22:18:08 - 00:22:44:19 Rev. Brittany I do, I have five questions, so I know they're a little long, but I thought they were all good and meaningful. Our first question is: If Mary's Song were sung today, what specific injustices, hopes, and transformations would she name? Secondly: What song is God inviting you to sing even if your voice trembles? Third: How does Mary's love for her child expand into a vision for a world turned upside down? 00:22:44:21 - 00:23:13:13 Rev. Brittany Four: Why does true justice-seeking love often feel disruptive rather than comforting? I think that's a good one. And last but not least: How can we practice love today in ways that are tangible and life giving and not just symbolic? We hope that you'll take some time to ponder these questions, whether you reflect on them on your own, or you have some conversations with those in your life, we hope that you will take some time to think about Mary Song and to think about your own. 00:23:13:18 - 00:23:17:07 Rev. Brittany We'll see you next time. Bye. 00:23:17:09 - 00:23:33:08 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org.