00:00:00:00 - 00:00:34:15 Rev. Trudy Welcome to Perspectives. A podcast where the clergy women of the First United Methodist Church of San Diego share their musings on Scripture, theology, and what it has to do with us. Welcome to this episode of Perspectives. We are continuing our conversation about travel and seeing the places in the scripture, two big major stories about biblical people making long journeys, long important journeys. 00:00:34:17 - 00:01:05:16 Rev. Trudy And today, we are also going to continue with a conversation about a particular journey that many of the members of this church and a few other churches came together to partake in, and that is Sankofa, the pilgrimage in 2024. So, it's good to have Reverend Brittany here with me. And I'm Reverend Trudy Robinson. Thanks for listening. I hope you will learn something and be inspired and find hope as we have this conversation. 00:01:05:17 - 00:01:37:12 Rev. Trudy So glad you are here. The Scripture that we use last week as part of this journeying series was the one where Abram and Sarai went a long distance to find a completely new home, and they were asked to be blessed and to be a blessing. And I think that's a similar kind of wish, that God would have on the Apostle Paul as he went off to do his missionary journeys. 00:01:37:14 - 00:01:49:05 Rev. Trudy He was really focused on changing the world, as he knew it anyway. And, I'd like you, Reverend Brittany, if you don't mind, to read the passage that kind of sets that up. 00:01:49:07 - 00:02:20:14 Rev. Brittany Absolutely. We're reading from the Book of Acts, chapter 13, verses one through three. "The church at Antioch included prophets and teachers. Barnabas, Simeon – nickname Niger, Lucius from Cyrene, and Manaen, a childhood friend of Herod the ruler, and Saul. They were all worshiping the Lord and fasting. And the Holy Spirit said, 'Appoint Barnabas and Saul to the work that I have called them to undertake.' 00:02:20:16 - 00:02:25:10 Rev. Brittany After they fasted and prayed, they laid hands on these two and sent them." 00:02:25:12 - 00:02:51:21 Rev. Trudy They are taking their missionary journeys all across the Mediterranean world, the world as they knew it. They are bringing blessings. They are bringing knowledge. And, I can't help but think that that is part of what we were trying to do as we went on the Sankofa. Not necessarily offering the blessing or the knowledge, we did not have that to impart on the places that we were going. 00:02:51:23 - 00:03:22:23 Rev. Trudy Rather, we were hoping to gain those blessings and that knowledge. And, we were doing that so that we could change the world. Yeah. So that we could get rid of racism. Bit by bit, year after year, with the learning of the Sankofa Pilgrimage. And, we went last year, and it was a beautiful experience, difficult, but a beautiful experience. 00:03:23:00 - 00:03:31:09 Rev. Trudy And you had a vision for something different this year. And, you want to say a little bit about that, that vision, what made them different? 00:03:31:13 - 00:03:58:09 Rev. Brittany Yeah, sure. One of the things that I'm really, like, I want people to understand is that racism isn't just defined in the South, that it goes well beyond just the southern states, and it is a part of each and every state that is the United States of America. And so, last year, we went to the South and had our first experiences, or maybe not first experiences, but we were more familiar with that kind of learning. 00:03:58:09 - 00:04:20:05 Rev. Brittany We had heard about slavery, or you know, knew certain things about Jim Crow. But we don't really talk about the North and its role and influence on the South. And so, I thought it was really important that we go back to America's origin story that we hear a lot. And so, we decided together and thought that we would go begin that journey in Boston. 00:04:20:07 - 00:04:33:10 Rev. Brittany And so, we started in Boston and made our way down the coast from Boston to New York, from New York to Philadelphia, from Philadelphia to the District of Columbia, and Virginia, and Maryland. 00:04:33:15 - 00:04:39:15 Rev. Trudy Now, wait a second. Those were the good guys, right? They were the good guys in our nation's history. 00:04:40:16 - 00:05:06:13 Rev. Trudy I know better now because I was on the Pilgrimage. Really, really powerful journey. And, in this episode of Perspectives, it's not just Brittany and I that will share our perspectives, but we are inviting you to hear some of the pilgrims and hear what they had to say after engaging with some of the content each day of this trip. 00:05:06:15 - 00:05:24:00 Rev. Trudy So, it's wonderful for us to be able to hear the difference it was making. Right? Yeah. It's a little bit like Paul recognizing, you know, they want to be baptized. Yeah. There you go. We baptized a few people on this trip. 00:05:24:01 - 00:05:53:00 Rev. Hannah Hey, it's Reverend Hannah. I'm really enjoying this conversation. If you are, too, be sure to like, follow, subscribe, or whatever you need to do on your preferred platform to get the latest Perspectives episode. We'll be bringing a fresh take on scriptures, theology, and life each week. While you're at it, leave a review or drop us a line. We'd love to see your feedback. 00:05:53:01 - 00:06:14:12 Rev. Trudy It's really gratifying to hear some of the reflections that our pilgrims had each day. And it was important for us to talk about what we were experiencing. To have it not just be something you take a picture of and you forget. 00:06:14:13 - 00:06:15:23 Rev. Brittany Yeah. Right. Right. 00:06:16:04 - 00:06:26:14 Rev. Trudy But to have it really sink in. And, I think we learned from last year that those conversations about what did we just experience. Yeah, was really, really important. 00:06:26:14 - 00:06:47:08 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I think when you have a day full of learning, right. It's not just an intellectual learning, but it's also this emotional learning. And sometimes, a lot of times, it's an undoing of oneself, right. And undoing of what you've learned previously or your experiences that you've had, and kind of putting them into the light with the new information that you have and kind of what do you do with that? 00:06:47:13 - 00:06:58:12 Rev. Brittany And so, having the opportunity to reflect as a group on what we were experiencing and what we were learning was really, really dynamic. And it was a part of the overall learning opportunity. 00:06:58:14 - 00:07:21:07 Rev. Trudy And we tried to do some sort of reflection every day. We weren't always able to do that. Some days were packed so full, but the very first reflection we did was simply to set the stage and ask people why they came, right. Why they were on this trip. And so, let's take a listen to see what they said. 00:07:21:09 - 00:07:35:00 Sankofa Pilgrim What do I want to get out of this is I want to learn how to talk about this with my friends and my family. Not this. Just this journey, but this issue. And to learn the words to explain it. 00:07:35:01 - 00:07:58:11 Sankofa Pilgrim I said, San Diego is a sundown town. Was, and for the most part, is. It is simply not ready. But it was for the most part is. But this is why we are all here, so that we can start to work together to say. But ever again. 00:07:58:12 - 00:08:52:20 Sankofa Pilgrim It was to further learn what I was not taught in our unified school system. Right? What? What isn't talked about even today anywhere. And all of the hiding and sweeping under the carpet and ignoring the truth about how America was built. And I want to learn the truth because I don't want to be part of the deception. Because I know from talking to people that there are, you know, just a significant number of people who are happy to ignore this, ignore the truth that racism is still very much a part of the culture of today, whether it is conscious or unconscious, and it's being carried forward, is being perpetuated. And I don't want to be part of what perpetuates. 00:08:52:22 - 00:08:55:12 Rev. Trudy Don't you love that? "I don't want to be part of it." 00:08:55:14 - 00:08:57:23 Rev. Brittany "I don't want to be a part of what perpetuates it." 00:08:58:04 - 00:09:25:20 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. Scott and Rick, the last clip, went the previous year and so rewarding. So many people came a second year because it was such a powerful experience. Yeah. Yeah, that was really lovely. Lovely to see. I think he makes an interesting point. And something we, I think, saw in both of these pilgrimages. And that is ... what do they say ... the whitewashing of the history. 00:09:25:20 - 00:09:52:12 Rev. Trudy Right. To ignore the truth, the hard truth of it. And we saw that at the first pilgrimage and the second pilgrimage. And it was really helpful. All the prerequisite studies we did kind of set us for knowing something a little bit different, so that when we got to those places that really wanted to whitewash things, we got to say, yeah, well. 00:09:52:14 - 00:09:54:21 Rev. Brittany I think we know a little different. 00:09:54:22 - 00:10:09:21 Rev. Trudy We, I think you're skimming over a few things. Yeah, yeah. And in the North, I really felt that. It felt like you had to hunt to find any recognition of a history of racism. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:10:09:23 - 00:10:18:13 Rev. Brittany Because if we tell the story, right, the North was the benevolent of the country, right? Right. They were the saviors. But. 00:10:18:15 - 00:10:20:11 Rev. Trudy You know, all. 00:10:20:11 - 00:10:22:10 Rev. Brittany Of it trickled down and it was. 00:10:22:10 - 00:10:22:19 Rev. Trudy Everywhere. 00:10:22:19 - 00:10:24:21 Rev. Brittany It was everywhere. And it is everywhere. 00:10:24:22 - 00:10:37:09 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was really interesting for us to go right around the 4th of July. Yeah. Right. And to the nation's beginnings. Yeah. Plymouth Rock, we started there. 00:10:37:10 - 00:10:37:15 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:10:37:15 - 00:10:38:14 Rev. Trudy We did. Yeah. 00:10:38:18 - 00:10:42:23 Rev. Brittany Not a very big rock. Not a very big rock. 00:10:43:01 - 00:10:45:22 Rev. Trudy Yeah. So our first stop. 00:10:46:00 - 00:11:06:17 Rev. Brittany Well, our first stop, we went to Plymouth because we always hear about the story of the pilgrims coming over on the Mayflower. And so, we went on that same journey. We went to see the Plymouth Rock, which you would be shocked if you have not seen it. It's not very big. I knew that, but everybody else who did not was like, "oh my goodness, it's very small." 00:11:06:17 - 00:11:36:03 Rev. Brittany But we went and saw Plymouth Rock. And then we went to the Plimoth Patuxet Plantation, and got to see essentially how the pilgrims would have lived at that particular time on that land. And then we went over to the Mayflower and experienced what they would have experienced traveling from England over to this new land that they were set themselves for, set themselves up for, and just understanding, being on the ship. 00:11:36:03 - 00:12:01:05 Rev. Brittany Right. The Mayflower, you get to understand, first of all, how small it was. How tiny it was. And how flimsy in many ways that it would have been, right, for such a journey. But it was even more complicated when you think about how enslaved Africans were transported across the Atlantic, in conditions that were even more deplorable than that of the Mayflower. 00:12:01:05 - 00:12:21:02 Rev. Brittany And so, you enter the Mayflower, and you're on the top deck. And then, if you go down, there's a middle deck. And then, if you go below, there are two decks below that. And that's where cargo was held. And we can imagine that enslaved folks, at some point, on journeys similar, would have been obviously on those bottom. 00:12:22:19 - 00:12:23:15 Rev. Trudy As cargo. 00:12:23:15 - 00:12:23:20 Rev. Brittany As. 00:12:23:20 - 00:12:29:16 Rev. Trudy Cargo at the very bottom. Yeah. And these tiny, tiny little boats carrying a great number. 00:12:29:20 - 00:12:30:13 Rev. Brittany Great number of. 00:12:30:13 - 00:12:39:19 Rev. Trudy People. People. Yeah, yeah. So let's take a look at some of the reflections that came after the Plymouth Rock and the Mayflower. The Mayflower in. 00:12:39:19 - 00:12:42:16 Rev. Brittany Particular. Yeah, yeah. 00:12:42:18 - 00:12:57:00 Sankofa Pilgrim And I think being on the Mayflower, even though I was on the, the pilgrims quarters, I would know that I would have made the journey. That was really claustrophobic and overwhelming to me. And I can't imagine being on the next level. 00:12:57:01 - 00:13:36:05 Sankofa Pilgrim But, when we got on the ship, I did not go downstairs. I couldn't go downstairs. It was very difficult for me to know that my people were. They were like sardines down there. Yeah. It was deplorable. It's terrible. Absolutely. There was a frame on top of the ship and little holes were in the frame. And that's when the people on the ship, just to look down at the slaves. And so, when I saw that, I thought about some of the movies that I had already seen based on that. So it was it was very hard for me to go downstairs. 00:13:36:07 - 00:14:05:03 Rev. Trudy I'm so grateful for the black man (one!) and women that came with us on the trip. To join that conversation and be willing to have it with us. Well, definitely. They had a different experience. And yet, and yet, we got to empathize at the very least, as we heard, the other woman say. 00:14:05:05 - 00:14:42:17 Rev. Trudy Tough stuff. Very tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just kept on going from there. I know that Plymouth Rock, the Mayflower, you can't think of those things without thinking of the Indians, right? Right. Yeah. And Thanksgiving and the story that we tell one another about that. And you made it a point in this journey to talk about the colonialism and the racism that occurred around the Native Americans. 00:14:42:17 - 00:15:10:01 Rev. Brittany Yeah. I mean, I think it's really important. I mean, Doctor King said "a threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." And so, I think it's important to talk about the intersectionality of these things. Of course. When we talk about the founding of America and the founding of this country, we talk about the Thanksgiving story. But we're not talking about it from the perspective of the Wampanoag tribe and the people who experience this devastation of what colonialism has done and did do to them. 00:15:10:03 - 00:15:31:21 Rev. Brittany So, it was really important that, for me, that while we were there, that we didn't only get the, as we referred to it, "the whitewashed version of history" going to the Plimoth Plantation, but that we also got the experience and understanding from folks whose families lived it, whose bloodline is deeply rooted in that land. 00:15:32:03 - 00:15:56:04 Rev. Brittany And so, we went to the Wampanoag Museum in Mashpee, Massachusetts, and got to really understand their experiences. We went to the ... we saw and learned about, you know, how it's built and who lived there, and how, you know, their lives were so communal. And then, we also went and talked to a tribal leader. 00:15:56:06 - 00:16:13:07 Rev. Brittany David, who gave us really big insight on what their experiences are today, and what goes on with them today, and how their numbers have decreased in such a way that they can't afford to live in the land that they've been priced out of. And so, we talked about this. 00:16:13:09 - 00:16:17:16 Rev. Trudy That one more time, you just, you just kind of ... I want people to hear that. Yeah. 00:16:17:16 - 00:16:28:14 Rev. Brittany So, the Mashpee land, it's, there very few Native Americans, very few Wampanoag, who can afford to live on the land. 00:16:28:16 - 00:16:29:14 Rev. Trudy Ancestral. 00:16:29:14 - 00:16:53:01 Rev. Brittany Land. Yeah. Their ancestral lands. And so, they've been priced out. Due to, I mean, Mashpee. Beautiful. It's on the water. It's a beautiful community. And we see that often – that folks of these particular communities, whether they're indigenous folks, or whether they're black and brown people, in their communities, they are often priced out due to gentrification. 00:16:53:03 - 00:16:55:08 Rev. Brittany And then they're thrown to. 00:16:55:08 - 00:16:56:12 Rev. Trudy The. 00:16:56:13 - 00:16:58:04 Rev. Brittany The outskirts and they have to figure it. 00:16:58:04 - 00:17:41:12 Rev. Trudy Out. Yeah, yeah. His presentation was so good, so wonderful. And, you could just, empathize with the culture that they were trying so hard to keep. Right. To remember, to pass on. And, you know, we learned in some of our studies and in those museums, just as you said, very communal kind of culture. In a very, a culture, that's really tied to creation and the land, and, boy, my goodness, why couldn't we have learned from them instead of treated them as we did? 00:17:41:13 - 00:17:53:18 Rev. Trudy I know that, a couple of the folks had said that, they were surprised to learn that Native Americans in that timeframe were also sold to be slaves. Yep. To other countries. Yeah. 00:17:53:18 - 00:18:15:06 Rev. Brittany Yeah, they. Yeah. We hear his name as Squanto, but his name was Tisquantum. And he actually was sold over into slavery in Europe. Was able to make his way back home, and he was a part of the pilgrims story, so. Yeah. Yeah. 00:18:15:08 - 00:18:37:00 Rev. Trudy And one of our pilgrims, I know had said that, she was, it really struck her that when, I think it was David who said, that Thanksgiving Day for them was Mourning Day? Yeah, yeah. Wow. We also went to Burial Hill Cemetery. Why was it important to go there? 00:18:37:02 - 00:18:58:00 Rev. Brittany I always think it's important to know how people are buried. You know, how we care for our dead shows a lot about what we thought of them in their life. Right. And so, Burial Hill is a place where most of the Plymouth, most of the pilgrims were buried, in the 1600s on this plot of land. 00:18:58:04 - 00:19:10:11 Rev. Brittany I also wanted to juxtapose that to the unnamed African burial grounds across this country, where black bodies were buried in mass graves, but don't have any kind of markers or identification. 00:19:10:11 - 00:19:32:01 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll return to that idea a little later in the trip. Yeah. And we were in Boston for the 4th of July. That was different. And we had the opportunity to hear the reading of the Declaration of Independence. I am sorry to say that I don't think I had ever actually read the entire Declaration of Independence before. 00:19:32:03 - 00:19:38:23 Rev. Brittany I think maybe in like seventh grade I had, but it was a big refresher, and oh, wow. 00:19:39:02 - 00:20:02:16 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, very interesting to be in that space where so many patriots were gathered and there were balloons and streamers and music, and it was the 4th of July, and we were all very celebratory, or most of the crowd was, but we were there. The pilgrims were there with a different kind of story to look at and through that lens to hear the Declaration of Independence. 00:20:02:16 - 00:20:05:02 Rev. Trudy That was very striking. 00:20:05:03 - 00:20:05:19 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:20:05:21 - 00:20:12:21 Rev. Trudy And, as one of our pilgrims noted, that was only for certain people. 00:20:12:23 - 00:20:27:06 Rev. Brittany It's only for certain people. And that's why Frederick Douglass wrote "What is the 4th of July to a Slave," right? Which juxtaposes this holiday to the experiences of enslaved people in 1776. 00:20:27:07 - 00:20:40:15 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah, we had an opportunity to celebrate that as well, of Frederick Douglass, in his words. it was nice to see that, yeah. Not as big a crowd gathered around him, though. 00:20:40:15 - 00:20:41:05 Rev. Brittany Not as. 00:20:41:05 - 00:20:48:02 Rev. Trudy Big. Yeah, yeah. Coming back to the idea of burial grounds, we were in New York. 00:20:48:06 - 00:20:49:21 Rev. Brittany We were in New York City. 00:20:49:21 - 00:20:53:12 Rev. Trudy We. And we went to the African Burial ground. 00:20:53:12 - 00:20:54:02 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:20:54:04 - 00:20:55:04 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:20:55:06 - 00:20:59:10 Rev. Brittany Trudy, did you know that there was an African burial ground in Manhattan? 00:20:59:12 - 00:21:00:23 Rev. Trudy Right in the middle of the city? 00:21:01:02 - 00:21:16:09 Rev. Brittany Did you know that New York was the second largest place for enslaved people in the country outside of Charleston, South Carolina? How many of us don't know? Do you know that there were enslaved people who built Wall Street? 00:21:18:22 - 00:21:25:16 Rev. Brittany And those people were sold on Wall Street. I have so much that I could tell you, so much that I could say. 00:21:25:16 - 00:21:54:22 Rev. Trudy Yeah, so much. And we're grateful that that's exactly what we learned on this trip. And we asked folks what their experience was. We went to the site of the burial ground, learned that there was a public outcry once it was discovered, that the bones there, the remains were there, and there was going to be a building there, had been a building on it on top of it, it came down. 00:21:54:22 - 00:22:23:04 Rev. Trudy That's when they discovered the remains and something else was going to be built. And, there was a public outcry that said, "we will wait, you got to do something with this." And so, there's a little bit of a marker in a museum, that we went. Very little, all things considered. It wasn't like the Burial Hill Cemetery in Massachusetts. 00:22:23:06 - 00:22:34:16 Rev. Trudy It was very small, but it was powerful. And, we have some pilgrims who are reflecting upon it. Let's take a listen. Yeah. 00:22:34:18 - 00:22:47:01 Sankofa Pilgrim The one thing that struck me in the reading was that the excavation and the digging stopped because there was public protest. "I don't like it." So not even in death. 00:22:47:03 - 00:22:47:17 Rev. Trudy Yeah. 00:22:47:19 - 00:23:08:06 Sankofa Pilgrim You know, are these real people that really matter. When I see Manhattan, I will see those graves and that. So no, I will never look at that. Have the image of Manhattan that I had in the past, totally different, that wiped it out for me. Yeah, I don't think I'll ever visit that. 00:23:08:08 - 00:23:09:23 Rev. Brittany Folks get fired up. I'm ready to go. 00:23:10:00 - 00:23:16:05 Rev. Trudy Oh, this is this when we when we really look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:23:16:06 - 00:23:30:14 Rev. Brittany I like to say that I lived in New York ... or I worked in New York, I lived in new Jersey ... but it was not something that I knew about very well. You know, I learned about it through my studies, but it wasn't something that was talked about even in the city. 00:23:30:15 - 00:23:40:10 Rev. Trudy Yeah, yeah. While we were in New York, we went to Central Park. We did. And saw Seneca Village. We then learned about it. 00:23:40:12 - 00:24:01:01 Rev. Brittany Well, Seneca Village was a community of an African people who were, you know, lived in that area of town. It wasn't a park at that point. And once the city decided that they wanted to make it into a park, they kicked those people out, obviously, and sent them onward and built up the park, which, again, is a part of gentrification. 00:24:01:01 - 00:24:24:12 Rev. Brittany Right? As we discussed. And that history is not talked about. Central Park has also been the site of many, many racist acts, right? When we think about the Exonerated Five, who were young children who were convicted of a crime that they did not commit. Right, based on these ideas that they're savages and that they are criminals. 00:24:24:14 - 00:24:36:00 Rev. Brittany And so, again, New York was the second largest state or place that held enslaved people. That doesn't go away, right? It just reincarnates itself. Right? 00:24:36:02 - 00:24:51:22 Rev. Trudy That's right, that's right. In the next set of reflections, some folks, in our conversations, moved from the reality of Seneca Village towards gentrification and then towards sundown towns. 00:24:51:22 - 00:24:52:11 Rev. Brittany Yeah. 00:24:52:13 - 00:24:54:16 Rev. Trudy You want to explain what sundown towns are? 00:24:54:18 - 00:25:34:04 Rev. Brittany Yeah. Well, sundown towns were historic. Usually. They gained most of their popularity in the 1950s. Before the 1950s. During that time, during the Jim, Jane Crow era, as I like to call it. But those towns are all white towns and all white counties, in some areas, that are intentionally all white. And it was known that black people shouldn't go into those towns ever, but particularly after sundown, because then they would be lynched. And many of those towns that again, that history is hidden, but there are still sundown towns that exist today. 00:25:37:04 - 00:25:40:20 Rev. Trudy Let's listen to the reflections. 00:25:40:22 - 00:26:05:14 Sankofa Pilgrim In 1880, when by the 1880s, when we cleaned out Central Park. Let's put it that way, to make room for the park, they showed a picture of shanties, lean-to stone houses. And in a day's time, people got one day notice and it was written so a lot. How many African-Americans could read it in the 1880s? How many whites could read in the 1880s? 00:26:05:16 - 00:26:23:03 Sankofa Pilgrim They had one day to clean out where they were going. They showed a picture of it one day, and then the next day they showed another picture of it. It was just everything was level. All your belongings were plowed away, your shanty was knocked down, your house was knocked down, and some people were at work and didn't even know about. 00:26:23:05 - 00:26:53:08 Sankofa Pilgrim So could you imagine that how we treated those people after dark? Our beloved "Protect and Serve" police department selectively protects and serves after dark. Black and brown. Taken down to the jail. Beaten. Tortured. Sundown city. Yes. Okay. We are. I was born and raised in San Diego. I am 68. Because it is not everybody here's frame of reference and knowledge, does not mean it did not exist. 00:26:53:10 - 00:27:06:09 Sankofa Pilgrim I need to get smacked in the face every once in a while to realize that gentrification is not something that just started happening, and it's been happening for hundreds of years. 00:27:06:11 - 00:27:21:06 Rev. Trudy And while we're in New York, still, let's continue with our trip to the Statue of Liberty. Yeah. And that the museum that was there, there's a lot that we didn't know about the Statue of Liberty. 00:27:21:06 - 00:27:41:18 Rev. Brittany A lot that we didn't know. Yeah, it was France's gift to the United States after the abolition of slavery. And, there's the post, she's supposed to, like, represent freedom in her chains and shackles being broken. I didn't really see that. Yeah, I didn't really see the chains of the shackles. 00:27:41:18 - 00:27:45:21 Rev. Trudy Neither did one of our participants. Take a listen. 00:27:45:23 - 00:27:55:09 Sankofa Pilgrim I was surprised that it was originally conceived to celebrate the emancipation of these. Oh, I'm like. What? 00:27:55:14 - 00:28:15:13 Sankofa Pilgrim I'm really interested in symbolism, and it helps me connect to things. And one of the things that I'm sure you all saw were the broken shackles. Did you? I didn't. I looked and looked and looked and looked. They're not readily visible. 00:28:15:15 - 00:28:17:04 Rev. Trudy There's a metaphor. 00:28:17:06 - 00:28:18:04 Rev. Brittany There's a metaphor. 00:28:18:04 - 00:28:52:14 Rev. Trudy There's a metaphor for, for what? Our, what we're learning, for sure. We're halfway through the trip, and there have has been such learning already, and there's so much more yet to come. But we're going to close it up for this episode now and simply give you some things to think about. As you've heard, all of the pilgrims have such a wonderful had a wonderful experience of learning. Wonderful is not the right word, but it was impactful. 00:28:52:14 - 00:29:25:07 Rev. Trudy Impactful? That's a much better word. So much to learn. And we hope that you've learned something by listening to this. We hope that you have been intrigued by what you don't yet know and how we might yet become something that is closer to what perhaps we could be. So, we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. 00:29:25:09 - 00:29:53:13 Rev. Trudy This is a production of First United Methodist Church of San Diego. To learn more about our events and ministries, and to access additional learning resources, visit fumcsd.org.