January 5, 2015 by The Boundaries Books Team 15 Comments Amy and Randall had been married for eight years, and they loved each other.
When you sow mistreatment of people, you should reap people’s not wanting to be around you. In their relationship, the one who has the problem isn’t facing the effects of the problem.
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I understand the point that Randall is the one who is supposed to be reaping the negative results from his unloving behavior, but it seems like the suggested example used in this story (isolation) was putting him in the same situation he used to escape his responsibility. It would be helpful to hear a couple of different examples of appropriate responses for this scenario.
As someone for whom withdrawl and isolation are part of my pattern, I am sure that the other partner threatening to withdraw is far from helpful. Thirdly, I am learning that the roots of my withdrawing and isolating are very deep-seated. Fifthly, I have been learning about trigger-feelings – those feelings that happen at the moment BEFORE I start to withdraw. I am also interested in solutions to this situation since I deal with this on a regular basis as well. This sounds like a variation of the silent treatment that was dosed out regularly in my home growing up.
That is what I faced and praise God He taught me to finally see it for what it is – dealing with a narcissistic husband.
Coming from Randall’s side and being the one using anger I think it is very important for the spouse to set a strong boundary and use her voice.
Well stated, as expected, but alternatively, it’s possible that Randall has an un-diagnosed psychiatric disorder and is in need of a psych evaluation.
This all sounds really great, but what about those of us who may have a significant other who is bipolar or has some other mental illness? Normally requests like these are just people running their mouths about their opinions, something that can be safely ignored because since when do entertainment companies actually find these petitions and deem the support behind it to be something special? Firstly, Zhou Mi and Henry are not official Super Junior members, but Zhou Mi and Henry are official members of Super Junior-M. There won’t be any change with their positions nor will they promote with Super Junior. I think this talk started at last Super Show, when they stood with us for Super Junior stages. We hope you all will have same feelings as us, and look at them with warm hearts, and cheer for them. Also to be noted is that Eunhyuk’s statement only addresses the actual integration of Zhou Mi and Henry into Super Junior. While there’s a great deal of disappointment as to the potential wasted in catering to a select group of fans, when weighing the options between doing nothing or bringing two members fully into Korean promotions and potentially losing a bunch of fans, some of whom may turn dangerous, it may have seemed safer and easier to keep the situation at where it stands currently so that business continues as usual. SM Entertainment didn’t physically sign a document about never adding any more members to the group. But other than that, as already mentioned, the statement seems to be a placating move, one that says just enough, but doesn’t actually change how the group operates. I tried to have a serious conversation with their members (or supporters?) and I can tell you it’s impossible to have a rational discussion with them.
Their a bit delusional in thinking that Henry and Zhou Mi is going to damage the suju name, when in fact their making their reputation better. All the humiliation Henmi suffered during their debut years demonstrated how childish those pioneer elfs behavior were. IDK if Only13 is xenophobic (they accept and still consider Hangeng as a member), although they very well could be.
You make a good point about Hangeng, but I can’t help but think this might not be such an issue if Henry and Zhou Mi were Korean. Some fans need to grow up a bit and realise that their opinion doesnt matter when there’s millions of fans out there.
As for most people, I still consider Henry and Zhou Mi to be SJ members even if they’re still technically SJM members since their debut. I am not usually in favor of altering group lineups after debut, but people come and go i K-pop for lots of reasons, and this is especially true with larger groups like SuJu.
I might have more sympathy for fans who resent member changes (and particularly additions) if they affect a group’s music, performances and group dynamic negatively. I have to add though, I think SM Entertainment have failed big time with their handling of the situation from the very beginning.
I completely agree, nobody seems to have a problem except me that Super Junior M consists of 8 members now and no offense but most of them really don’t put any effort into their Mandarin and that is simply swept under the rug.
The thing that I find strange about this is that Super Junior hasn’t been only 13 in a while. While Hangeng and Kibum have been gone for so long, pursuing their own solo careers, Zhou Mi and Henry have been working with Super Junior. If you look at only the Chinese side of the Only13 faction it’s already really large, the last time I was updated about how many people had signed the petition on Weibo it was already in the thousands after one or two days. I was involved in the second linked counter petition which we also posted on Weibo and we got thousands of comments filled with complaints and hate from China ELF. Another example of the Only 13 strength is the fact that SJ’s Baidu Bar (China) and SJMarket (Korea) which are the largest fanbases in both countries were in support of that petition. The Only13 petition is at 6,250 signatures, ELF_league’s counter-petition is at 8,740, so we are ahead by about 2,500 signatures.
The problem is that it’s no secret that a good portion of Forever15 supporters are western. I wonder if ELF Japan would be comfortable heading some kind of strong counter to this, but typically, larger groups don’t want to get involved.
Oh, actually to think about it, to be quite honest, they’re better off not in Super Junior imo. Majority of the ELFs do support Zhou Mi and Henry, but they want to make sure the boundaries are clear between them and the main group. Everytime I read about these stupid petitions, I wish I could take all those who started it and get them into a job cos they have too much time on their hands.Henry is the only reason I pay attention to Super Junior. What gets me most about this is that Henry and Zhou Mi seemed to have only found out about this at the same time as the concert audience, and that is a terrible way the learn of something like this. May I know what makes you consider that Henry & Zhou Mi weren’t aware that Eunhyuk was going to say that speech?

But I agree with you that they wouldn’t make Hyuk drop this bomb without previous notice.
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However, when he was angry or upset, Randall became moody and would withdraw from Amy and the kids, except for occasional outbursts of anger. Amy could have said to him, “Honey, I know you’re under stress, and I want to support any way I can. It is to be hoped that the pain of this loneliness would help Randall take steps to deal with his feelings. And things don’t change in a marriage until the spouse who is taking responsibility for a problem that is not hers decides to say or do something about it. It is not simply to do with current circumstances, but is a child-like reaction, based on childhood experiences. The question is the person who is leaving is getting something out of this when they get back. I read some great books on this which, along with learning to set boundaries, helped me to see when I, and others in his life, were repeatedly abandoned it was as punishment for standing up for simply having feelings and my own rights as a human (not even as a wife). I have not liked the boundaries set by my spouse, but it is the only way I have seen how hurtful I have been.
Guest members do not use the color pearl sapphire blue for activities not related to the subgroup. Super Junior’s official online channels post information and videos of Super Junior members only. But the problem was that the petition gained momentum from those supporting it and those against it.
This seems largely far-fetched considering the fan base that each individual member has managed to accrue for themselves, but fear can drive some to do strange things.
Either way, the important thing is that the issue became large enough that someone thought it needed to be addressed. The blunt nature of that statement, however, implies that the probability of Henry and Zhou Mi actually joining the group in the near future, despite the amount of talent they could bring, is little to none. With members cycling in and out of the military, Super Junior needs Henry and Zhou Mi to stay a large enough size to accomplish what needs to be done for their concerts.
They ignore your argument and just reiterate that they have nothing against Henry or Zhou Mi but SM has to keep its promise. Secretly I wanted Henry and Zhou Mi to be added to the main group, but now I think their going to be more wary bc of this backlash. SuJu’s most fans and support is coming from international fans rather than Korean fans.
The boys should thanks those new elfs that they gained along the way because it was them who bring Suju to a new level. We don’t even need to wash dirty laundry in the public because everyone knows how ugly and uncivilized our fandom was in the past. They just keep going on and on about ~the facts~, and this verbal and totally-legally-binding agreement between ELF and SME that I personally have never seen video, audio, or transcript from (someone link me?), while accusing us of fabricating quotes and being selfish for wanting Henry and Zhou Mi to join the main group (not what our petition is about either but okay) and then everyone gets less lines in songs and their addition would lead to original members being kicked out (? Both generally refuse to listen to what you have to say and their bias to words their opinions blinds them from being reasonable. This is awful, and I bet the member themselves would rather see Henry and Zhou Mi integrated officially into the group!
ELF is a huge fandom and I think the majority of us are ok, but a loud minority can obviously sway SM to a stunt like this! It baffles me that some people refuse to accept that SuJu’s lineup alters both temporarily (with members carrying out military service) and permanently (with members leaving and new ones entering). IMO they should have made clear years ago that THEY are in charge of SuJu, NOT a group of rabid fans, and set some clear boundaries for those fans. I know they were created to try and enter the chinese market but why can’t SM bother investing a little more effort into that venture?
It would make sense for SM to add Henry and Zhoumi into Super Junior at this point in time especially since the members are getting older and military service is inevitable. It should end this dispute and petition, but yet they are continuing with their original plan to send it to SM. They say what they are doing is to help keep the group intact, while they are really breaking them apart with their own hands. Super Junior has always been a favorite group of mine, and the fact is, Henry and Zhou Mi sort of complete the group especially with other members gone (AND NEVER EVER COMING BACK) and other members doing their time in the military. I just want to make sure our opinion gets submitted to SME as well, but apparently ELF_league doesn’t want to submit theirs.
These two guys, especially Henry are so talented and wouldn’t it be great to have them in Super Junior? Both of them are perfectly aware of their positions in Super Junior as well as in SM, and they NEVER crossed the line, so I think the hate toward them mostly came from them BEING in Super Show 5 a little too much. It still saddens me that the stupid stuff that I heard about back in 2009 when I was new to kpop is still going on. Not trying to be rude here, but I had sort of assumed that the members all knew about it – they can’t be that bad crazy to say it without informing and apologizing to the two first? Who do they think they are to be demanding Only13 when the boys themselves are like family and Eunhyuk had to point that out himself. 5 super simple ways get the latest in green and eco friendly living from the editors at good housekeeping!
When we are unloving or irresponsible, people withdraw from us by emotionally shutting down, or avoiding us, or eventually leaving the relationship. This can range from mentioning how her spouse’s behavior hurts her feelings, all the way to setting a limit on the behavior.
It was very difficult, and as many books, Christian and secular will state, the only way to stop the narcissism is to threaten to leave. The dynamic just spins around disrupting the family until it is addressed firmly and consistently. It spawned (at least) two petitions asking for SME to continue supporting Zhou Mi and Henry and numerous discussions over the matter. Doing Super Shows with them, and watching them wait for hours in the waiting room after performing only 3-4 songs made us sad.

So for a group of fans to expect a large and successful entertainment company to act according to some pretty unreasonable wishes is rather pretentious but has been horribly successful. They need them also because if they choose to go without them, that would bring another storm of its own. Look at the success of Exo-M–fans need to accept that K-pop is now a global enterprise. But yeah, I think the SJ members would support Henry and Zhou Mi if they were officially SJ members.
I mean, SM doesn’t exactly have a great track record with taking care of their foreign artists or their foreign fans.
Only13ers keep talking about how, without them, Super Junior wouldn’t have become a permanent group or whatever. They care so much about contracts and the original promise of SM, but face it, Hangeng doesnt even have a contract with SM anymore. Its really sad and disappointing as an ELF to see them receive so much hate despite all these years. In the end, we aren’t really around to buy cds and merch and go to concerts, our opinion is worth less to SME because we spend less money. I mean, Super Junior got the bulk of their international fans post-Sorry Sorry, so it’s not like they have any connection to any of the old reasons why Only13 even started. SME glossed this over by dropping the rotational concept that the group was supposedly going to operate with, meaning that Kyuhyun was the last member to be added, that no one would be rotated out, and no one else would join. He could have his tantrum, get over it, and go about his business as if nothing had happened. This helps place both the sowing and the reaping with the same person and begins to solve the boundary violation. It has lasted so long that I would be out so very late at night (midnight) waiting for the other person to calm down and I would be the one suffering and nothing ever got resolved. Those supporting the main petition seem to be primarily from South Korea and China while those against it, as you could expect, were from Southeast Asia, Japan, and Western fans.
And knowing that they want to stand with us on stage instead of feeling lonely, we thought it’d be nice to bring them up for not all Super Junior stages but ones we interact with fans.
But the unfortunate nail in the coffin is that it had to come through the mouth of a member, making the statement, in some ways, seem miles more official than anything SM Entertainment could have come up with. Things have changed but as long as SM are too insecure to stand against the Only13 believers nothing will change. They argue that they aren’t Only13, while spewing the exact bullshit Only13 believes. Also, I don’t believe for a moment that Hyuk made those statements of his own accord and I feel sorry for him and everyone who was present. Remember that mess when foreign fans weren’t allowed in to see Exo’s comeback performance?
To some extent, they played a role in that, but now they are just ruining the group and the fandom because they are too stuck in the past. They claim to respect Henry and Zhou Mi, but if they are unable to respect the words of a member of the “main group”, how likely is it that they are respecting the two members of the subgroup?
How is it that Only13ers can accept the fact that Hangeng and Kibum left on their own and still support them as part of the main group, but cant accept the hard work and effort by Henry and Zhou Mi in spreading the Super Junior name? SJ loves henry and zhoumi and treats them warmly like family so why are only13ers doing the opposite?
They probably wrote that petition for reassurance, comfort or whatever, and that’s why Eunhyuk gave the speech.
What I never understood is why Kyuhyun didn’t get as big of a backlash as did Henry (and Zhoumi)?
We are not victims and it is a choice to not take out our negative self talk on those who can’t help us, it is up to us. It would have been more appropriate to make the statement at any of their stops in China or South Korea. Henry has been also making his rounds, becoming a part of the Younique Unit, having a stint on the celebrity version of Masterchef Korea, and most recently, talking up a hoot on Happy Together with Kyuhyun. And with this damning conviction coming straight from a member, it’s possible for some fans to somehow confuse their support for Henry and Zhou Mi as not being support for Super Junior, and thereby cutting it off. They say they respect Henry and Zhou Mi while doing anything they can to keep them from bettering their careers.
What they should realize is that the only way super junior can last is with a strong and united fandom, not a fandom split into 2.
Also, ELF was established after Kyuhyun joined, so that really cemented to many fans that SJ was 13 and wasn’t going to ever change. I can’t even have a moment’s peace in my own home!” And with that, he stormed out of the kitchen into his home office, turned on the computer, and stayed there until the kids went to bed.
The next time you yell at us like that, we’ll need some emotional distance from you for a while.
But by doing it in Singapore, it did ensure that some rabid chanting of Only13 wouldn’t ensue after the talk. In other words, it could affect sales decisions for those fans that buy because the name Super Junior is thrown around. The best response should have been to just ignore the petition, like SME ignores mostly everything else, rather than blowing up the situation through a concert statement. No one was to complain or be negative about any subject, for fear of setting him off again. She stopped what she was doing to take on the project of changing her moody husband into a happy man. Randall was “playing,” and Amy was “paying.” And because of this, he was not changing his ways.
Do you find yourself editing your behavior before you even say or do something because of how you think this person will react? It may sound extreme, but I’d not be home or not let the person come home who stormed out. If they expect to come home and get the royal suck-up treatment and instead find the house empty and you carrying on with your life it’s the same as a two-year old who is throwing a tantrum in their time-out spot.

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