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This week’s guest, Mary Shenouda, The Paleo Chef, turned a misdiagnosis of cancer into a calling.
In today’s show with Mat Lalonde, PhD, you’re going to learn what people do wrong when going Paleo, why nutrient density matters, and what you should eat for dinner. In this show, my wife Alyson is interviewing me about how to upgrade your brain, the relationship between music and testosterone, how to get a full-brain workout, and tons more. In this show, you’ll learn how Denny lost 46 pounds while on tour with Tim McGraw, quick tricks to eat clean on the road, how to get a high-intensity workout in a parking lot, how to reduce anxiety and stress with meditation, and more.
This week’s show is with Tawnee Prazak, a holistic endurance coach who specializes in optimizing your health and your performance at the same time.
On this week’s show, we’re here with James Wilson, an expert mountain bike trainer and we’ll be talking about how to move like a human, injury prevention, and how to dodge salesmen at the bike shop. Drew Manning, author of bestseller Fit2Fat2Fit is on the Fat-Burning Man show to share his incredible experience gaining 75 pounds of flab in 6 months and then dropping it all.
But first, if you tuned in to watch me on Thursday night starring on ABC’s My Diet Is Better Than Yours, thanks for the support! In case you missed it, my contestant Kurt and I won 1st place in 2 events straight out of the gate and he’s in the lead having dropped 50 pounds in 6 weeks with The Wild Diet. If you’re into High-Fat, Low Carb, Primal, or Paleo, pay close attention to what happens in the upcoming episodes because it’s about to get interesting. Abel: It’s been 4 years and if you’ve been listening from the beginning, you might remember Drew. Abel: There’s much to be said for cutting-edge research, but it’s a whole other thing when you experiment on yourself. A lot of people thought I did some kind of Supersize Me thing, eating fast food for all my meals. I come from a NASM trainer background, so I used a formula of protein, fats, and carbs and I documented it every day. I was basically eating lean meats, egg whites (trying to reduce fat a little bit), “healthy grains” and dairy. But now I’ve upgraded my thinking about nutrition because it plays a big role in getting back to fit. Abel: You can lose weight in many different ways, but some methods are horrifying and terrible for you. It wasn’t the case four years ago, but now a lot of people are looking into high fat, low carb, moderate protein—they’re seeing the importance of fat in the diet. We are taking ten trainers from across the country who are very good looking, have six-packs, and are maybe a little self-obsessed like I was about physique. Then they team with their obese client and together (as a client and a fat trainer) they have to lose together. My digestion was way better from giving my digestive system a break during fasting—it felt great.
I definitely plan on doing a more formal long term experiment down the road, but I’m still getting situated here in Hawaii… I want to experiment with intermittent fasting separate from ketosis. Abel: How has fasting combined with putting on fat and losing it changed your perspective on the calories-in calories-out dilema? I’ve changed my perception of the “cheat meal.” Before I did my experiment, I’d beat myself up and want to hit the gym if I ate that bread pudding. My workout when I was doing my Fit2Fat experiment was 5 days a week, about 45 minutes a day. Fit2Fat gave me a better appreciation of my body, because you don’t know what you have until it’s gone.
My whole goal with the TV show is to take these two worlds—skinny fit people who love the world they’re in and people who are overweight and don’t see progress (and there’s judgment on both sides)—and to bridge that gap.
Abel: I have to ask a hard question—how does that experience change raising your own daughters? When I ate mac-n-cheese, Chicken McNuggets and a liter of Coke for dinner during the experiment, I’d make separate meals for my daughters. For dinner they’ll eat the same foods I eat—organic chicken sausage or bison and one loves cucumbers. In his first four weeks on The Wild Diet, Kurt lost a whopping 37 pounds while eating delicious foods like bacon cheeseburgers and chocolate, and even putting a hunk of grass-fed butter in his fresh-roasted coffee!
As a member our exclusive Fat-Burning Tribe, you’ll not only gain access to our library of videos, recipes, articles, downloads, and a supportive group of community members—you’ll also be able to grab the just-released 30-Day Meal Plan (a $97 value).
My wife and I developed the 30-Day Meal Plan using our favorite recipes backed by the principles of The Wild Diet to help you shed fat as quickly as possible, while enjoying delicious meals and real food treats.
PLUS, join the The Wild Diet Challenge today and get the first month of the entire program for just $1.00 (it’s a value of over $100 dollars). You can shed fat fast by drinking delicious veggie-filled green smoothies and eating real, hearty meals… and you can win cool stuff while doing it! The 30-Day Fat Loss Challenge starts Monday, February 1st and goes until Tuesday, March 1st! As an official Fat-Burning Tribe member, you’ll not only gain access to our library of videos, recipes, articles, downloads, and a supportive group of community members—you’ll also be able to grab the 30-Day Meal Plan (a $97 value) for just $1. People were telling me, “Your genetics won’t let you get fat.” Then they saw how quickly my body changed… and I attributed it to highly processed typical American foods. After years of frustration, sickness, and increasing flab, I stopped listening to the “experts,” “gurus,” and even my doctors. GET FAT-BURNING SECRETSGET MY BEST FAT-LOSS SECRETS, TIPS & TRICKS SENT RIGHT TO YOUR INBOX.
Ladies and gentlemen, today we’ll be hanging out with a super cool author, podcaster, and Jiu-Jitsu master, Robb Wolf. For those of you who haven’t yet read The Paleo Solution, Robb has a pretty cool back story.
But at the ripe age of 26, Robb suddenly found himself crippled by severe ulcerative colitis and the wheels fell off.
But after his mother was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, Sjogren’s syndrome, and Celiac disease, Robb smelled what he was stepping in. So Robb stuck his nose in the books, swung over to Whole Foods, grilled up some grass-fed beef, and the rest is history. Today, Robb hosts an insanely popular podcast, The Paleo Solution, and we’ve both been muscling for the top spot and nipping at the heels of Jillian Michaels for the past few weeks.
And with our powers combined (and all of the other ancestral health podcasts out there), we’re giving conventional wisdom a walloping.
How much and what style of exercise is appropriate for maximum longevity and overall vibrancy? Ladies and gentlemen, today we’ll be hanging out with one of my favorite authors, podcasters, and Jiu-Jitsu masters, Mr. And, last time I checked, it was ranked at least in the top ten in most English-speaking countries on iTunes charts. And, if you haven’t already, it really helps us skyrocket in the rankings and get after the conventional wisdom folks when you leave a review on iTunes. I also wanted to give you an update that the format of The Fat-Burning Man Show is evolving. I plan to have many of my guests back to answer your questions, explore heady and cutting-edge principles and theories, and chat about generally changing the world. Robb: It might be a different thing if you’re building a house and you’re tinkering with something you’re building. Robb: A little bit of what this is is just some necessary smoke-and-mirrors to just get the buy-in so that I’m not tripping these kind of flags that are going to send people into a fizz. Robb: And even though I recommend low cholesterol levels overall, then as soon as we get in, we start looking at, “Well, what if your HDL is this, your LDL is this, but your triglycerides are super-low, and your C-reactive protein is really low, then it really doesn’t matter all that much.
Robb: And so, instead of tackling that head-on, I just kind of told people what they wanted to hear up-front, had the qualifiers on the back end to keep the more nuanced people happy, and I haven’t been kicked in the balls too much, ya know? Robb: Yeah, and I think we could flip that around and kind of put the carbohydrate intake in the same deal. Robb: And I would love to jump up and down on that study and throw it out to the blog-o-sphere and be like, “See? Robb: It’s a place to start asking mechanistic-based questions where we do intervention studies and whatnot. Robb: It seems like it, as far as Type II Diabetes, and all of that stuff, and I think that a little understanding of epigenetics, like, what was the in-utero environment of my grandmother and my mother, and what is the epigenetic input, then, on me? Robb: So I think that that’s another nuance in what we’re getting now is, you know, we’re now several generations into post-industrial, heading into post-information age society, where, you know, grandma was metabolically broken, had Type II diabetes or borderline Type-II diabetes, mom was borderline, kid is now hatched, borderline-diabetic. Robb: And they kind of arrived at the same stuff that I did, which was, if nothing else, I think what intermittent fasting tells us is that the whole body-building paradigm of 6 meals a day is pretty bogus.
Robb: Being cold, hypogonatic, no sex drive, and, like the best that you’re going to get is about 6 more years of life. Robb: And we know pretty clearly that exercise will give you 2 to 4 years of additional life. Robb: And that’s where the intermittent fasting…like, I had hoped there might be this really cool intersection where we could get some significant increase in an average lifespan without suffering the down-sides of, you know, loss of muscle mass and sex drive and all that sort of stuff.
Robb: So, I would largely just make an argument for people to get a lot of sleep, lift weights, do sprints, do gymnastics, maintain your mobility, eat an anti-inflammatory diet.
Robb: And, on the one hand, maybe that’s a bummer because starving yourself isn’t going to allow you to be 150 years old. Robb: So, you know, mobility and the ability to produce power, the ability to learn new movement patters.
Robb: But when I look from an anti-aging perspective that, you know, weight lifting to maintain muscle mass and power, gymnastics-type stuff for mobility and body-awareness, and sprint stuff to also augment the power.
Robb: We were wrapping up the TV shoot and we were walking back to the hotel, and we’re probably about 40, 45 yards away from , like, we needed to cross the street so we’re on our side of the street and we needed to get to the other side of the street and we had a chunk of sidewalk between us. Robb: His point is just that most people are just not that active and don’t need that many calories. Robb: I think Art’s approach to training—I don’t think you’re going to produce a world-champion Olympian or a world-champ sprinter, but it’s the best return on the investment I’ve ever seen. Robb: Just that evolutionary fitness essay that you read on his website I think is almost easier and more accessible…it’s a phenomenal piece of work.
Robb: So, if I have somebody that has a 300 triglycerides, you know, the triglyceride 300, or HDLs are, like, 30, this person has raging insulin resistance and metabolic derangement, I think the term ‘safe starches’ applied to this person is moronic. Robb: Once we do kind of a low-carb intervention with this person and get them a functioning from an insulin resistance standpoint much better and get their leptin signaling much better and whatnot, then I would be totally open to introducing some starch for this person particularly post-workout and see where they go. Robb: You start getting your box out, like tying yourself off 3 days in advance, gearing up for this carb re-feed.
Robb: I think you take that basic template and then actually moderate it a little bit, and I think you’ve got a better, longer-lasting approach. Abel: I know that I’ve had good luck sometimes if I go very low-carb for too long, I feel a little sluggish. Robb: Based on leanness and the amount of activity that you did and all that stuff, like when I drug myself out to my car after I think I did, like, 6 3-minute rounds of chits today, and all the dudes that were there are like, 22 to 25 and they weigh over 210 lbs. Get your FAT-BURNING goodie bag that will teach you how to quickly and easily eliminate belly fat and reach optimal health. Specifically, how a poor diet can lead to cancer and speed its growth, and how a clean, nutrient-dense diet could help reverse it.
She healed her laundry list of health problems with nutrition, and now she teaches professional athletes, celebrities, and other overachievers like us how to do the same.
John Berardi PhD, CSCS, one of North America’s most popular and respected authorities on fitness and nutrition. Do you want to impress your friends with shameless jams from the coolest band they’ve never heard of?
You’re about to learn how to become fat-adapted for endurance sports, how to reduce cortisol and avoid overtraining, and how stress affects your health. You went from looking like a fitness model to gaining 75 pounds in 6 months, and then going back to a six-pack. If you go read my book and blog, the whole experience changed me from a mental and emotional perspective.
You were leaning down on a diet plan that you shared with everyone, which I thought was so cool.
It’s a docu-series, not a competition, that takes you through the trainer’s journey from a physical, mental, and emotional perspective. I’m okay with people counting calories to get a ballpark, but I don’t have them beat themselves up if they go over. It was a mix of resistance training Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and Cardio on Tuesday and Thursday—mostly in the gym. I made them healthy foods because I knew if they ate those foods at those ages they’d continue to want to eat those foods. They’ll have my spinach shake which is my go-to breakfast recipe: spinach, avocado, coconut flakes, cacao nibs, different kinds of protein, whole cashews, almond milk and ice. I’ll take a stone and do thrusters, then sprints on the beach, and then go body surf for a couple waves. Plus: learn the 3 worst foods you should NEVER eat and the 7 best exercises for rapid fat loss.


If you want to get started on your weight-loss right now, we’re giving you all the information, motivation, and support you need to uncover the six pack I know is under there!
My name is Abel, and a few years ago, I decided to seriously focus on my health and made some alarming discoveries. I buried my nose in the research and experimented on myself like a lab rat until I found the truth. Robb is the author of the New York Times Best-Seller, The Paleo Solution, a former research biochemist, a renowned strength and conditioning coach, and a leading expert in Paleolithic nutrition.
Once a monstrous powerlifter whose stats could make He-Man blush, Robb could no longer bench his own body weight. The base of the food pyramid – grains and legumes, “the most wholesome and righteous of foods” – seemed to be out to kill him. And – awesome news – the Fat-Burning Man show just hit #2 in the UK and nudged out Jillian Michaels!
No corporation, no sponsors, no PR or massive marketing campaigns – Robb and I are just a couple dudes with mics who are passionate about helping as many people as we can. I plan to have many of my guests back to answer your questions, explore heady and cutting-edge principles and theories, and chat about changing the world. And we’ll talk today a little bit about his interesting back story that has a lot of parallels with mine. I know I speak for Robb and all of the other Paleo podcasters out there when I say that we are very humbled and truly appreciate your support.
So if you have a minute and you haven’t already, please hop on over to iTunes and leave us a review. Abel knows that I just got the dog piss beat out of me for about 3 hours at ‘Jits, so he’s pulling all of your legs. I find that interval working, interval training, I mean, it’s like you can get in and get a pretty good focus going for about 3 to 4 hours, and then things start getting a little dodgy at the end of that, and then, really, having an expectation of 8 hours of productivity—if it’s writing and cerebral work—it’s tough. But I find any type of cerebral work, writing, it’s about 3, maybe 5 hours, then I’m tapped, I’m gone. So I just revisited your book a few weeks ago, and I’d forgotten that you were once a self-righteous vegetarian for some time, too. I was very fortunate at the time that the place I was working I was doing some lipid metabolism research related to autoimmunity and cancer, and so I was kind of able to steer the boat of my research kind of in this Paleo diet direction. You know, in the early days, Loren was of the opinion that saturated fat posed a significant cardiovascular risk parameter. And then, over the course of time, I think that most people who are metabolically broken have systemic inflammation. And you know, the way that I do, or the reason I wrote the book the way that I did, and I had a couple of folks, I forget her name, she was really cute, her name will come to me… But she was like, “I wish you would change that in your book! In doing that, the interesting thing to me—unlike with Loren Cordain, where he didn’t end up having these qualifiers in the book, he got very severely taken to task about his cholesterol recommendations, about the fat and stuff like that—whereas for me, I guess I was a little bit two-faced about it. And so, this is some of the stuff that’s born of coaching people and also having the benefits of–Loren’s book was released in 2001, mine was released in 2010. I was so sick, and then benefited so much from a ketogenic diet that I had a legit, hard-wired carb phobia for a long time. And my main issue with it was that it was, again, this food-frequency questionnaire, very observational, and you know they did the best job they could to try to normalize differences within different groups: this group had more smokers, this group exercised less and stuff like that. My main point was just that, whether it looks like it’s for our position or against our position, we can’t promulgate science around that thing. Stephan Guyenet, through some e-mail exchanges, said, you know, maybe there are some deleterious health elements to that red meat piece that people aren’t looking at.
And then you start coupling that with shorter and shorter sleep, more and more photoperiod disregulation, more inactivity, I think all these things feed into systemic inflammatory issues, decreased insulin sensitivity. So this is one of the things, also, I see people get really nasty about, “Well, you can’t say that our genes are the same as what they were as hunter-gatherers.” Okay, guilty as charged! There’s a genetic distribution on that we tend to see the robust resistance to things like grains decrease over time. Maybe some people do better on that, you know, it’s by no means the only way that you can get lean or build muscle and all that. And then, from there, it’s so dependent on what your stress level is, what your activity level is. You know, I view it very much as a tool that can be used effectively under the right circumstances. I think that just eating an anti-inflammatory diet would probably give you 2 to 5 years of life. And that’s going to give you, like, 99% of the benefit of any type of freaky, austere, crazy intervention.
But then, on the other side, maybe it’s also kind of liberating, because, it’s like, just live and enjoy yourself.
So, Robb, I asked my readers and listeners—they were all stoked that you were coming on, so was I—if they had any questions for you, and they sure did. And that’s where the gymnastics, Jiu Jitsu, capoeira, these kind of open-ended movement explorations are super-cool. But to build that metabolic engine to keep us healthy throughout our life, that seems like a good balance and it doesn’t have to be a frenetic pace. Obviously there’s some good genetics in there, but there’s also the way that Art has tackled this stuff, it works. And so he would prefer to have some pork spare ribs, but don’t add 6 tablespoons of coconut oil to it. But, now, might there be people with that 300 triglyceride level and 30 HDL that are not going to respond well to a ketogenic diet? What are they trying to do?” instead of just these blanket statements: “Safe starches are good for everybody.’ For that matter, is a ketogenic diet intervention the best place for everybody? Like, I really liked all of Mauro Di Pasquale’s stuff, the metabolic diet, anabolic diet and stuff like that. I used to have this—especially when I did vegetarian diet—like, some thyroid issues, and that’s genetic, my mom’s always had that, too. Since this one was bad, I had that big carb meal, and then Nikki and I are going to go hit a Mexican place that makes a seafood stew that has sweet potatoes in it.
You’re going to learn how to improve your health, happiness, and well-being using the Ancient Wisdom of the East. He’s a Co-Founder of Precision Nutrition, which has coached more than 20,000 people across the world. 90% of the food I ate was the typical American processed foods a lot of us grew up on and is even marketed as health food: Oatmeal, pasta, white bread, juices, granola, cookies, cereal, and soda. A lot of pro athletes are going lower carb now and getting away from processed sugar and sports drinks in favor of veggies, high quality protein, and fat. You get all aspects from 10 different trainers and methods, so you see what works for some and what doesn’t. I don’t track my macros… but if someone has a very specific goal—maybe they’re doing a physique show or something—then they could track for accountability. Here’s what I do: Let’s say it’s the holiday and my mother-in-law makes bread pudding—I’m not going to turn it down. I did crossfit for a couple of years, but now my workouts are about 20 minutes long and it’s about working out as efficient as possible. There’s so much inertia when you want to change your life—people tend to say, “I can’t do that.” It’s cool that you made that happen. We’ll randomly be selecting 3 winners to send a signed limited-edition first proof of The Wild Diet — international members qualify! I created this website to share these discoveries and help people achieve their diet goals, in a fun, healthy and sane way! Through his best-selling book, top ranked iTunes podcast and wildly popular seminar series, Robb has transformed the lives of tens of thousands of people around the world. Robb’s doctors worried that his loss of vitality and an early death was all but inevitable.
Robb is the author of The Paleo Solution, a former research biochemist, a sought-after strength and conditioning coach, and a leading expert in Paleolithic nutrition. This is unprecedented stuff. No corporation, no sponsors, no PR or massive marketing campaigns – Robb and I are just a couple dudes with microphones who are passionate about helping as many people as we can. And it talked a ton about grains causing gastrointestinal damage, metabolic derangement due to changes in carbohydrate load in decreases in protein and basically just an evolutionary mis-match between our genetics and our environment.
Paleo has evolved, so to speak, over the past few years, and it seems that it’s far more nuanced in terms of what qualifies as Paleo, especially in recent years. And I always—coming as a lipid biochemist background—it never made sense to me unless we had other really overt systemic inflammatory issues. So I had 10 years of travel to see how this message how this message had gone out to the masses.
Because I remember when I went from being vegetarian to eating meat again, and it’s a similar story as you, I just started eating meat.
And some of that was because, until I really reversed some of the metabolic derangement, if I had something like an orange or an apple or a hunk of sweet potato or something like that, I just didn’t feel good. And my main point with this thing, unlike some other folks that kind of went after the study, I don’t like the observational piece, I don’t like the food frequency piece. And my point was really that we’ve done this epidemiological—I equate it to the pan-handlers on the street, that there’s a dice under the hat and they’re moving it around on the table—we’ve done that. Like, maybe we’ve got a hemochromatosis thing, where people are accreting too much iron over time, and that’s an oxidative stress and we’ve know that that may be an issue and Eades talked about that back in 2000, 2001 in Protein Power Lifeplan recommended that males and post-menopausal women donate blood to reduce their iron load and stuff like that. Theoretically we’ve been told to look back to our ancestors ten thousand years ago to look for cues about optimum human health and lifestyle. But there was a doctor in Australia, who, in the 1960’s, put the pieces together of leaky gut and autoimmune disease. It was so contrary to the mainstream message it just kind of got gobbled up and disappeared. Just the whole package is moving further and further away from a phenotypic norm that would have been good for the vast majority of us.
There was this thought at one time that giraffes developed long necks because they stretched their necks to fruit that was high up. You know, like, the kid hatches out metabolically broken and even with a low-carb, active intervention, the kid is always kind of doughy, they don’t really put on muscle mass, they don’t have normal hormonal signaling.
But I also suspected that, you know, it’s a stress similar to exercise, and so you need to dose this thing out appropriately. So, if nothing else, intermittent fasting, or just simply eating 3 regular meals a day may simplify your life.
But, I’ve found, more often than not, because I come out of this kind of CrossFit background, that given the sleep deficiencies that most people have, given the level of training that they’re trying to endure, that intermittent fasting is often times, like, if you needed 12 things in your life, intermittent fasting was number 13. So, really quickly, if we just exercise intelligently and don’t beat ourselves to death, and we eat something that looks kind of like a Paleo-type diet, we’ve probably trumped all the benefit that we can get from calorie restriction, and we get to carry a little muscle mass around, have a functioning libido and not be cold all the time. Because I think, to some degree, just focusing on good but not necessarily fashion-model body composition, I think that you could make an argument that that’s an important piece to this. And then, just the characteristics that we get from a sprint-based athlete…and I think that stuff is all fun.
Art DeVany’s old stuff of like 2 days a week of weight lifting, a couple of days a week of sprinting and just, you know, some mobility work.
This is one of these things, not to go too far off-topic, but Art has historically recommended lean cuts of meat, going back to one of the first questions. The thing with that is that I don’t like seeing it turn into the four-hour body approach, which is, you start like a heroin addict. One, people tend to gravitate towards carbs that I think are gut-irritating, more grain-based type stuff.
When I started eating meat, most of that resolved itself, but going very low-carb, it seems to make me sluggish again.
Where I’ve kind of played out with that is that I like to see carbs just go in the post-workout window.
Why can’t you?” People saw how humbling it was for me, and how it gave me a new perspective, and empathy for people who struggle with their weight.
I was worried that some of them would be like, “This is so easy.” But they all came out with a better respect for people who are overweight and trying to lose weight.
Through his best-selling book, top-ranked iTunes podcast and wildly popular seminar series, Robb has transformed the lives of tens of thousands of people around the world. And we’ve both been muscling for the top spot and nipping at the heels of Jillian Michaels for the past few weeks.
But both of us have a little gut sense that it’s probably going to go a little long, just because she’s feeling fully ready to go now.
And I literally was like, “What the heck have I got to lose?” I went and bought a bunch of grass-fed beef ribs at Whole Foods, cooked ‘em up, had a salad, and literally had the best night’s sleep I’d had in a couple of years.
Collins, and then started the gym in Chico, and the blog, and the podcast, and did the book and all the rest of that. But you worked with Cordain way back, like you said, so what do you think about how Paleo has kind of re-calibrated over the past few years?


And so, this is one of the things that, over the course of time, that stuff has rattled out. And I was pleased when you talked about how, in your book, it starts out recommending lean meats, but can we talk about the fat issue? I had watched what had happened to Mike Eades, who had always recommended a higher-fat approach, or don’t worry about the fat, even from conventional meat, and stuff like that, and I saw both of these people get taken to task from people not understanding what the bigger picture was that they were trying to talk about.
And the example that I used in that write-up was a very, very similar piece that seemed to implicate starch intake as  being a risk factor in the recurrence of breast cancer in people who had already suffered from breast cancer.
Insulin spiking is bad!” And I can think of some mechanisms of causation there, thinking about insulin-like growth factor and down-regulation of retinoic acid production out of the liver, and that being a factor in apoptosis. But you can look back just a couple of generations and they were far closer to optimum than the average American today. But reading through his literature, in the early 1800’s, 1700’s, a lot of people died from deficiency diseases. But then, at the end of the day, if I turn around and ask these people, “So what do you recommend that I do differently so that we reverse metabolic derangement, autoimmune disease and a whole host of systemic and inflammatory diseases? I think that, as we move out of the early reproductive years, when selection pressure is very, very powerful, and we see more of these things pop up later. And even when I first made recommendations for this, I recommended that you figure out what you needed to eat so that you look, feel and perform great. And, you know, progress that to the point where you start to see some deleterious effects, and then back it off.
I just really like the characteristics that we get out of a balanced program that involves some weight-lifting, some gymnastics-type stuff, you know, basic tumbling and mobility work, and all that stuff. There are possibly going to be people out there, but the lion’s share of people are going to benefit from that lower-carb intervention.
But it’s a better place to start more people than, in my opinion, than, say, starting them off with 150 or 200 grams of starch a day. And when I get done with that, like I know, typically on a Tuesday, who the dudes are that show up. And so, because I got bludgeoned, this one…the total carb load will probably be 250 to 350 grams of carbs, all told. And – awesome news – the Fat-Burning Man show just hit #2 in the UK and even nudged out Jillian Michaels! But that’s all been an outgrowth of having been really sick, getting healthy, becoming a coach, talking to people about this stuff, kind of keeping my finger in the research circles and all that. We understand one of the big awakenings for me…I was always of the opinion that everybody would benefit from a low-carb, Paleo approach. Because what you said earlier, that seems a little bit over-reductive, it’s not really the whole story.
So I recommend lean meats and low cholesterol levels unless you have “this, this and this” happen. And what we need to start doing is shifting our money into intervention studies metabolic or clinic trials, where we are looking at specific biomarker end-points, putting diseased populations, putting healthy populations under different dietary protocols, and then see what the results are. But my main…I wasn’t as comfortable with some of the delving into the different quintiles and folks thought that the data was being massaged and whatnot.
There seems to be some selective adaptation in people in Northern Europe, you know, like in Finland, those people do not tend to succumb to Seasonal Affective Disorder quite the same way that people who transplant to that area are affected. It would have been better if this was called ‘evolutionary diet’ or something like that, because it hearkens back to evolution. So, again, it’s nuanced in that we understand better the ‘how’, but then the ‘why’, you know, ‘why is this stuff the way it is?’ but then the ‘how—how do we fix this?’ I don’t really see that changing all that much. But you know, where that will force a change is when we have a population that is so sick that they either never go through puberty or die before reproductive age. This was one of the rare times that I actually recommended that people weigh and measure their food, which I’m usually not a fan of. And some sprinting, and some sprints anywhere from, like, you know, 10 meters to up to maybe 800 meters and just playing along that spectrum. But, as time has gone on, I’m like “Dude, Art’s spot-on.” Most people are not active enough to warrant just a ladling of fat onto the bulk of their meals.
It’s going to reverse metabolic derangement so powerfully and just so effectively that that’s still where I’ve got to start the vast majority of people. If you go out and you’re hanging out with some friends and you get Mexican food instead of the Carne Asada plate with meat and veggies, you’re like, “Dude, I’m going to have some nachos.” Okay, have some nachos.
I’d rather see that kind of thing happen spontaneously and within reason and all that stuff.
But I have found that when I do re-feed once every week or two on carbs, mostly Paleo carbs, then I feel a heck of a lot better for a while.
And the sweet potato that I ate after that, it was making my car ride heavy on the one side. My parents were very, very sick growing up, and I just had a niggling suspicion that diabetes and heart disease and mental illness was not a guarantee for me. That’s kind of the Cliff Notes 30,000-foot treatment of how I went from that spot to this spot. No, you don’t always have to start there, but it’s a safe, easy spot that you can start people, and then we can start tinkering from there.
I recommend the lean meats up front, but then if you look at the actual meal plan recommendations, it’s not lean meats, it’s not low-fat. But I can’t hang my hat on that study, because, again, it’s a food frequency questionnaire and it’s very observational. I think it almost obscures the point, which is, we need to move beyond that level of investigation.
But in terms of obesity, modern disease, and pretty much anything else you can measure, things didn’t really seem to fall off a cliff until 50, 30, 20 years ago. There were lots and lots and lots of kids who died from gastrointestinal ailments, which, I think, looking back now, we kind of recognize as being Celiac-related issues, you know, grain intolerance-type issues. And it’s certainly not Lamarckian genetics, but it’s the epigenetic input, I think, that we’re finding, you know, when we look at stress inputs, when we look at metabolic disease and stuff like that. But, basically, we get so far away from what is acceptable for our genetics and our epigenetics that we’re not longer able to reproduce and we get a selection pressure. But I recommended that they really get a good picture of how much food you really need to run effectively at your current output. My thought, early on, it’s been kind of interesting, because, like, John Berardi, and Martin Berkan have really gotten in and tinkered with this stuff. There’s been a lot of good research which, I want to roll this stuff out on the blog, and I think whatever, you know, tertiary book projects will look at this stuff. And I know that there are a lot of people that look at like the persistence hunting of the Kung San and sub-Saharan Africa. They would be leaner, they would be less inflamed, they would have better body composition if they would just follow this guy’s recommendations. And if we don’t get the type of shift that we want, and we’ve got the person sleeping, and their Vitamin D levels are good, you’re getting a little fish oil, then we can tinker with the starch a little bit. It transfers in how genes are methylated so we’re not changing the genes themselves, but we’re changing how these genes get turned on and off, and that’s possibly more important than the actual genome itself, you know? And only the people that squirt out the back end can deal with Slurpees and cotton candy and stuff like that. And then, when you start dropping in the intermittent fasting, maybe go about 16 hours, 14 to 16 hours initially, and just tinker.
But Michael Rose, who’s one of the leading experts on the world on aging, he’s done some really interesting stuff looking at genetic reaction norms in humans and other species and stuff like that. And that stuff’s all legit, but the reason why I kind of hang my hat on this stuff is that, as we age, we tend to lose muscle mass and we tend to lose power. And that’s what I needed to kind of bounce back from that training if I go and do some gymnastics, isometric holds and whatnot, then I have, maybe 30 grams of carbs with that, and then I’m mainly sticking with the veggies and maybe a little more carbs if I know I’m going to do some metabolic training in the day. And around 1992—I graduated high school in ’90—and in ’92 the food pyramid was kind of unleashed. Do you need a kind of GAPS protocol to really heal the gut, and you don’t do starch at all? Let’s start doing some intervention studies based around those concepts and see what the outputs are.
And we had problems like Beriberi and, gosh, I’m blanking on the other term, but basically B-vitamin deficiencies, we had D-vitamin deficiencies.
Like, people make the point that the difference between humans and chimpanzees is, like, 2%, 2.5% at most of the genes. Make sure that you get the same amount of calories in that you would normally eat, but it’s just in a compressed feeding window.
He makes a really compelling case, that severe calorie restriction will likely add only about 6 years to the average human life span. And we also can lose mitochondrial density and the ability to produce energy and use that as a fuel substrate and all that stuff. That’s how I’ve kind of taken that, I meter out my carbs based on ‘what is my need coming up?’ or ‘what did I just do?’ And that seems to work pretty well.
But, really, the biggest difference between us is how the vast majority of those genes are turned on and off.
But when we train in a way that looks more akin to a sprinter or power athlete, then we are tweaking the genetics in the phenotypic expression against the primary things that we lose with aging. And then we’ve got kind of a logic tree or a flow chart that we can then start customizing things. But when I did, you know, there’s something inherently scary about fat when you first eat it, especially off an animal. So, it was only recently that we’re able to get a population matched up with a food supply where we were fortifying the food so that we weren’t seeing overt nutrition deficiencies in general.
And when you look at the results that he produces in himself and in the people that follow his program, it’s like, you do better than that! I think that that drum beat has gotten heavier and heavier as time has gone on, interestingly. The thing that’s interesting to me is that people just get nasty as hell about the nuances when, really, it’s just a process of discovery. But having a little bit of a counter-culture streak, having an interest in improving my performance, health and longevity, I tried eating a high-carb, low-fat vegetarian diet, which then kind of grew into a vegan diet.
And who knows exactly why that is, but it definitely takes a while for people who’ve even adopted this lifestyle to get used to the idea of eating fatty, fatty cuts of meat.
What was interesting was that I was still trying to maintain a power-lifting schedule, I was trying to do kick-boxing and capoeira.
Now we’ve got a robust enough food supply, and also tinkering with that food to kind of make it hyper palatable, to bypass the neuro-regulation of appetite. And it didn’t make sense to me that I would use brown rice protein powder or these protein concentrates that I would see a lot of these Vegan athletes use today. There was a lot of dying from infectious disease and also diseases of deficiency because of, really, an inadequate food supply because of the very reliance on these grains that were, at that point, unfortified and were causing gastrointestinal disease and stuff like that.
And then we see this transition into fortified foods that prevent overt vitamin B deficiencies that would kill people or make them open to infectious disease, but then, coupled with a really, really abundant food supply. And I think that this new risk assessment program that just popped up in the city of Reno is a good illustration of just having a base kind of curriculum or kind of philosophy. I went to the George Ohsawa Macrobiotic Institute—studied there—I followed all of the stuff from John McDougall and Dean Ornish, and I got sick. If you’ve got metabolic derangement, we start you on a low-carb Paleo [diet], we get your vitamin D levels up, we battle to get your sleep levels improved, try to have some smart exercise. It got to the point where I couldn’t even bench-press my body weight, which was then about 140 lbs. We have a gal that Amy Kubal’s been nutritionally coaching, and I’ve been helping her also. Given the fact that my parents were both Type II diabetic and had heart disease and everything, it was their opinion that I was a confluence of their very shallow end of the gene pool—genetics.
Then my mother, we discovered, had an intolerance—had Celiac’s disease, you know, gluten intolerance. And when I was talking to my mother—and she almost died from all this whole process—and when I was talking to my mom and she was describing what her rheumatologist was recommending that she needed to eat, which was no grains, no legumes, no dairy, basically. What the heck would you eat if you don’t eat that?” It was weird, this kind of stream-of-consciousness thing.
I was thinking, “grains and legumes, agriculture, what did you eat before agriculture?” And after a minute it just popped into my head: Paleo Diet. I had heard this term, this was back around 1998, and I had heard this term before, and it was this idea that if you ate more akin to your Paleolithic ancestors, that there might be some health benefits to that.



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