Flow battery vs lead acid,automotive battery amp hours,flooded lead acid battery 7ah - And More

The new UET flow battery is part of a major energy storage project supported by the US Energy Department. For those of you new to the topic, the energy storage market is set to take off like a rocket, running apace with the renewable energy market and the boom in electric vehicle sales.
Since wind and solar energy come and go, energy storage fills a critical gap in terms of availability and reliability. So far, lithium-ion (Li-ion) technology has staked a claim to the gold standard for energy storage in terms of performance relative to cost.
Best known for its application to the already-legendary Tesla electric vehicle, the Tesla battery was recently introduced to the small-scale stationary energy storage market in the form of the Powerwall battery, and the company is also diving into the utility-scale market.
However, other energy storage technologies have an eye on the prize as well, which brings us to redox flow batteries (redox is fancyspeak for the transfer of electrons).
Earlier versions were costly, inefficient affairs but in recent years flow battery technology has leaped several hurdles. The guts of the UET flow battery were developed at PNNL, which engineered a flow battery based on vanadium (vanadium is a silvery gray transition metal, also known as a micronutrient). PNNL’s breakthrough was to introduce hydrochloric acid into the electrolyte solution.
In addition, the use of two acids enabled the battery to function efficiently at a far greater range of temperatures. In 2012, we took note when UET won a licensing agreement to cross the technology into commercial use, specifically aimed at wind energy. The redox flow battery is well-suited for storing intermittent, renewable energy on the electricity grid.
Redox flow batteries can also help utilities during times of peak demand on the grid, providing additional power when it is needed. Let’s note for the record that Tesla Motors can also thank us taxpayers for its success. The battery was delivered earlier this year and the new announcement confirms that the shakedown period is over, and it is now fully owned by Avista. Keep up to date with all the hottest cleantech news by subscribing to our (free) cleantech newsletter, or keep an eye on sector-specific news by getting our (also free) solar energy newsletter, electric vehicle newsletter, or wind energy newsletter.
Tina Casey specializes in military and corporate sustainability, advanced technology, emerging materials, biofuels, and water and wastewater issues. Know all about it and recycled vanadium is not expensive versus market vanadium plus UET has its own source of vanadium. I would be concerned today purchasing storage that had a competitive LCOE based on years 10-20. I will be more impressed with the bravado marketing statements when they are accompanied by published firm prices and complete descriptions of all particulars.
Long term estimates of cost from a flow battery company are about as good as the viability of the company.
Have any of you’ll heard of the 20700 cell that Tesla has already designed and has slated for mass production at the Gigafactory?
That means that a Model S AWD equipped with a battery pack using 20700 cells could theoretically have a 345-mile EPA range while remaining the same weight, give it a 300-mile range while reducing the weight, or Tesla could redesign the Model S, refreshing the exterior, making it even lighter which would make it handle better, and giving it enough battery for a 300-mile EPA range.
Since the new flow battery is more hype than reality it is hard to make an actual comparison. Ivor, did you not see that this was a real sale to a utility (they own it) I don’t understand the hype part . Most of these guys are not going to publish pricing to the public, just because Tesla did so, does not mean they will. This company does not mind bad mouthing Tesla prices but then refuses to give their prices? I can clearly see that flow batteries should be hugely cheaper for long term storage than lithium-ion, assuming reasonably priced chemicals. I fully understand that companies want to write purchase agreements in secret so that they can get as much as possible in each separate contract. Which system can capture all those revenue streams and which one can capture only a portion of those revenue streams ? Flow batteries have the ability to store more energy for a longer time and might have a cycle life advantage (liquid metal batteries may have longer cycle lives). Lacking any cost data we don’t know if a flow, lithium-ion, liquid metal or other chemistry battery is the least expensive for short term storage purposes.
I am going to point you back to solar grid solutions who thought they could firm, shift and peak while providing frequency regulation services in the PJM using a single inverter. Frequency drops, I think, because loads are more than operating spinning generation can produce and they log down, slow down. If there was a very large amount of battery storage online then all the batteries could pump out a lot of power for a short time and shave the peaks without causing battery damage.
Coal is suffering death by a thousand cuts, what with cheap natural gas and plummeting costs for wind and solar power, and now here come our friends from the Energy Department’s Pacific Northwest National Laboratory to deal the knockout punch.
Now that we’re all thisclose to climate change and the damage from extreme weather events is piling up, US communities are experiencing the drawbacks of a centralized, regionally connected, and aging grid system that can cut off your juice right when you need it the most. As part of the solution, the Energy Department has been gung-ho on getting communities to adopt more locally generated renewable energy, the latest example being the new SPARC initiative.
The missing piece of the puzzle is onsite energy storage, and that’s where things get sticky. Lithium-ion batteries could provide a solution, but although the technology has a good safety record in autos and portable devices, scaling them up for community use in densely populated areas typically presents a hazard best avoided if at all possible.
For those of you keeping score at home, the liquids are called electrolytes (in a conventional battery, the electrolyte is the part that holds the charge). When not in motion, the two electrolytes are stored in separate tanks, and that setup offers some huge advantages over conventional batteries for large-scale energy storage. Until recently, flow batteries were huge, bulky affairs, but next-generation flow batteries are much more compact and versatile.
To be clear, the new PNNL flow battery is still in the lab — the working model was literally built on a countertop, but the folks at the lab are optimistic about the potential for scaling up.
Once you put the two liquids together (separated by that membrane, of course), the zinc ions in the other tank come over to the dark side and transform into metallic zinc. The countertop model has a 12-watt-hour capacity, which PNNL compares to about two iPhone batteries, so we’re a long ways away from powering entire cities. Lab tests revealed the demonstration battery discharged 167 watt-hours per liter of electrolyte. As for comparisons with other flow batteries, PNNL is touting the model’s lack of acidity, relatively low cost, and ability to operate efficiently in climate extremes ranging from -4 to +122 degrees Fahrenheit.
Meanwhile, last year, we were sniffing around the potential for using flow batteries for electric vehicles, and it looks like PNNL has that covered as well. According to PNNL, it takes about 350 watt-hours for a typical electric vehicle to go one mile in urban driving.
Halide salt is how I the dendrites previously were diminished but this chemistry is much different then the sulfur by which it solved. Coal isn’t being killed in the USA by prospective batteries but by currently deploying wind, solar, and gas, along with the new EPA rules that for the first time implicitly make coal pay a fraction of its huge environmental externalities. Sure, but the risk is that newly built gas plants will be used a lot longer than necessary just for the sake of being fairly new and still having investors wanting to get the return on investment before they are closed down. Yeah I agree, but gas plants will be around for a while, they make for some flexible backup capacity.

This just shows that Caffeine Deficiency Syndrom is a terrible curse – give generously at you local Starbucks to fight the dreaded CDS! Don’t worry Tina, *some* of us read at least a sentence past the headline part before commenting.
An electrical grid’s tolerate of large and sudden power fluctuations from wide swings in sunlight and wind power sources is a serious problem. Yi Cui, a Stanford associate professor of materials science and engineering and a member of the Stanford Institute for Materials and Energy Sciences explains, “For solar and wind power to be used in a significant way, we need a battery made of economical materials that is easy to scale and still efficient.
Today’s flow batteries pump two different liquids through an interaction chamber where dissolved molecules undergo chemical reactions that store or give up energy. To demonstrate their concept, the researchers created a miniature system using simple glassware. A utility grid sized version of the new battery would be scaled up to store many megawatt-hours of energy. For the future Cui’s group plans to make a laboratory-scale system to optimize its energy storage process and identify potential engineering issues, and to start discussions with potential hosts for a full-scale field-demonstration unit. Wind and solar could be important additions with attractive growth and pricing to consumers.  But without very low cost storage grid systems saddled with wind and solar could very well kill the economic engine of the social system served.
We could certainly use a cheap, simple, effective flow battery system for things like load leveling and emergency power backup. There are many advantages of Aluminium Windows Frames are the mokst popular kind and salmon. With the ever demanding motion to make everything more efficient and for vehicles to be “greener” and more environmentally friendly new technologies have arose to help automakers make more efficient vehicles. The numerous materials to make a Li-NCM battery comes from all over the globe, with each leaving their own impact. The lead-acid batteries have very few components in them and they do not come from very far away.
Each component of a Li-NCM battery is manufactured separately and then assembled (EPA, 2013). Every component of the Li-NCM battery is sent to the battery manufacturer (AESC) where it is assembled into the final product. Lead-acid batteries are assumed to be produced in the United States where the lead, lead oxide, sulfuric acid, and casing are put together and assembled at East Penn Manufacturing co., inc.
Li-NCM batteries in the automotive world are primarily used for electric vehicles (EV) so they are discharged and recharged from the electrical grid every day if they are used on a day to day basis.
Lead-acid batteries are always being recharged by an alternator when in use in a vehicle that uses an internal combustion engine. Li-NCM batteries currently have very little regulations for disposal but there is an incentive to collect the batteries for recycling (EPA, 2013).
Currently 96%-98% (EPA, 2012) (Battery Council International, 2013) of lead-acid batteries are collected and recycled completely.
After taking into consideration the amount of transportation required to move all the raw materials to the battery manufacturer to complete the final product, and the amount of CO2 emissions during transport from the manufacturer to Arcata, CA, the energy consumption for each stage as well as the products' use which is the main contributor, in this instance the Deka lead-acid batteries are more environmentally friendly than AESC lithium-ion batteries. A little-known startup energy storage company called UET just announced a major milestone for its latest flow battery project, and the folks over there couldn’t resist the opportunity to take a poke at the much-publicized Tesla battery, too. That goes for utility-scale operations and the booming small-scale sector consisting of homes, businesses, and other relatively small users.
To gild the lily, Li-ion batteries are easily scalable — hence the Tesla Motors Li-ion battery and coming Gigafactory.
The main driver here in the US has been the Energy Department’s Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL).
Conventional flow batteries use sulfuric acid, and PNNL found an increase of about 70% in storage capacity when both acids are used.
As for lifecycle costs, one advantage of vanadium flow batteries is the 100% recyclability of the vanadium.
Successful commercialization of DOE-sponsored technology development, such as this, is vital for creating the grid of the future, and sustaining U.S. In 2010, the company received a $365 million federal loan to crank up production of its Model S electric vehicle (Tesla paid off the loan far ahead of schedule, btw). Those have limited availability of their energy, degrade in capacity, are flammable, and have ? to ? the lifetime of the Uni.System. Tina’s articles are reposted frequently on Reuters, Scientific American, and many other sites. Tesla doesn’t own the rights or patents to any battery chemistry, nor do they need to. Until then, its strikes one as odd the boasts are particularly loud, but the particulars are peculiarly quiet. Still not as much as we would like to know, but compared to VRB vendors, Tesla is transparent. We also have several different storage vendors popping up, with varying degrees of transparency. I can get a complete installed system for 4 hour duration cheaper than installed powerpack. It’s 10% larger than the current 18650 cells and has optimized packaging and a slightly better chemistry. A lighter battery would allow for a lighter frame which can use a smaller, lighter, more efficient motors and inverters which reduces the energy needed to power it which reduces the size of cabling reducing weight which allows for a lighter battery, smaller, lighter brakes, suspension components, etc.
If the flow battery starts competing in the same markets as Tesla then real comparisons will probably be made. But flow batteries aren’t likely to gain a lot of public support until the industry starts releasing some ballpark numbers.
In order to calculate ROI you need a cost factor and a revenue factor, and this is where all things are not equal. An honest company, or person, would gleefully fill in the details because they want to make money.
They’ve come up with a clean, safe energy storage solution that also doubles as a much-needed way for cities to shore up their power resiliency in case of grid outages. This latest effort from Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) offers yet another new angle. In tight urban spaces where land is at a premium, the opportunities for large-scale local energy storage are rare. The liquids don’t interact with each other, reducing the chance of unintended or accidental reactions that could lead to fire or other hazards. Before the PNNL battery receives a charge, both of its storage tanks hold the same liquid electrolyte. In comparison, zinc-bromide flow batteries generate about 70 watt-hours per liter, vanadium flow batteries can create between 15 and 25 watt-hours per liter, and standard lithium iron phosphate batteries could put out about 233 watt-hours per liter. A key issue that PNNL is going to have to resolve is a problem common to this sort of battery — the formation of dendrite, which is a hairy, fernlike buildup of metallic zinc on the membrane. Based on the results of the lab tests, PNNL estimates that the new battery could crank up to 322 watt-hours per liter of electrolyte. Also with a little smart control each building can fill at a different time so the grid does need a upgrade. Near the end of the article it implies that it take it would take a liter of electrolyte to provide enough energy to power a car for one mile. Department of Energy’s (DOE) SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory and Stanford University have designed a low-cost, long-life battery that might make solar and wind energy major suppliers to the electrical grid.

As solar and wind’s combined contributions to an electrical grid approach 20%, energy storage systems need to be available to smooth out the peaks and valleys of the intermittent power supply by storing excess energy and discharging when input drops. The new flow battery developed by Cui’s group has a simplified, less expensive design that presents a potentially viable solution for large-scale production.
The chamber contains a membrane that only allows ions not involved in reactions to pass between the liquids while keeping the active ions physically separated.
Its molecules consist primarily of the relatively inexpensive elements lithium and sulfur, which interact with a piece of lithium metal coated with a barrier that permits electrons to pass without degrading the metal. Adding a lithium polysulfide solution to the flask immediately produces electricity that lights an LED.
As Europe and Germany in particular are rapidly discovering, high energy costs can devastate economies.  A few miss thought through decisions there are forcing an expensive and urgent reassessment of energy’s role in maintaining a successful economy.
Among these new technologies are the highly efficient lithium-ion batteries and in this case Automotive Energy Supply Corporation (AESC) Lithium-ion Nickel Cobalt Manganese (Li-NCM) batteries (Figure 1).
For the cathode: lithium is mined using brine pools in Chile, Cobalt and Nickel are mined and are assumed to be coming from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Aluminum foil from Europe (EPA, 2013). 60%-80% (EPA, 2012) of lead and lead oxide in a typical lead acid battery is recycled and the rest is assumed to come from China. The anode is made using the battery-grade graphite from China wrapped in a copper foil with a binder to hold the graphite slurry on the copper foil (EPA, 2013). The anode, cathode, and separator are layered and are then rolled into a cylindrical or rectangular shape (EPA, 2013). The battery life is difficult to assume because of multiple factors, but a range can be assumed to be 6 months-4years (Waste 360, 2006). The world's lithium demand will continue to increase with the number of electric vehicles (Waste Management World). The lead and polyethylene is recycled to make more batteries (Battery Council International, 2013) (Waste 360, 2006).
When pumped into a reactor, the two solutions flow adjacent to each other and generate a charge.
One major end-user will be the employee-owned electric power systems company Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories. These changes will allow battery packs using the 20700 cells to have a 30% higher energy density than the current battery packs using 18650 cells. I have distribution agreements so I have access to that information and the batteries for resale.
Then when you ask clear questions he tries to baffle with BS and then runs away saying you just don’t understand.
The fact this is not happening should make it obvious they want attention but are not ready. When certain liquids flow next to each other, separated by a membrane (or sometimes without, as the case may be), they can generate an electrical current.
Hazards are further reduced if non-toxic liquids are at play, and flow batteries can sit idle for a long time without losing their charge, making them ideal for emergency backup.
It consists of positively charged zinc ions and negatively charged iodide (iodide is a form of iodine, but with a different charge). Half of coal, yes, and almost none of the SOx, NOx, particles, soot and radioactivity spread. The new flow battery uses only one tank and pump and uses a simple coating instead of an expensive membrane to separate the anode and cathode.
When discharging, the molecules called lithium polysulfides, absorb lithium ions; when charging, they lose them back into the liquid. I will be comparing this new technology compared to an old technology of Deka's lead-acid batteries (Figure 2) using a Life Cycle Assessment to assess the environmental impact of each. For the anode: battery-grade graphite is assumed to come from China, Copper is mined or recycled in the United States, and a binder to stick the two materials together (EPA, 2013). The casing is made out of 60%-80% (EPA, 2012) recycled polyethylene assumed to come from the United States. For the anode the same process takes place but its active components (nickel, cobalt, manganese) are wrapped in aluminum foil (EPA, 2013). The role is then added to the electrolyte which is applied with a thin coating and allowed to dry before it is placed in the casing (EPA, 2013). Although the value of recovering cobalt has risen greatly due to demand (Waste Management World).
The sulfuric acid is neutralized and discharged into sewers or is processed into sodium sulfate (Battery Council International, 2013) Waste 360, 2006).
In California they have a behind the meter installation which has been operating for over a year at an industrial park. The entire molecular stream is dissolved in an organic solvent, which doesn’t have the corrosion issues of water-based flow batteries.
I will quantitatively analyze each stage of each battery's life cycle (from material extraction to end of life) to determine which product is more environmentally friendly. The electrolyte, sulfuric acid, is produced in the United States through one of two processes: lean chamber, or contact (Columbia University Press, 2012). The polyolefin separator is cut for the specific battery while the steel or aluminum casing is cast and cut to the desired shape. This entire process takes place in Japan at AESC where each cell is placed into a battery pack.
The metals are recovered by two methods; direct recycling process, hydrometallurgical, and pyrometallurgical (high temperature) (EPA, 2013). I like almost everybody hopes they get their product together and becomes very profitable for all. I will measure the CO2 emitted during transportation of the products from the products' manufacturer to Arcata, California. The casing is made out of steel or aluminum which must be combined with ores in a forge or mined (EPA, 2013). The lean chamber process releases multiple harmful gases such as sulfur dioxide and trioxide, and nitrogen oxides (Columbia University Press, 2012). Both hydrometallurgical (breakdown of battery components) and pyrometallurgical are highly effective but consume great amounts of energy (EPA, 2013).
The more environmentally friendly battery will be the one with the least amount of harmful by-products emitted during each stage of the product's life. The electrolyte is a combination of lithium salt and ethylene carbonate as an organic solvent which are both assumed to be produced in the United States (EPA, 2013). What is not recovered from the battery is incinerated or thrown in a landfill (EPA, 2013). The battery companies are competing against each other to get their cells built at the GigaFactory. We know thats relatively real because we know its just below the cost of the PowerWall which is also published. Of course if the code is 2-3 days peak, then you will want to lower your peak by being more efficient.

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