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30.10.2013
But the Leaf pack, also consists of electronics, casing and cooling and the Tesla upgrade contains, probably, a big margin. That is the cell price, but they have to make a million cells a day and they all have to be perfect. Texas, I think if you check, the 85 kWh Pack is not using the Same (New) chemistry as the 90 kWh Pack!
So – did you get the Price of a Tesla 85 kWh Replacement Pack somewhere to do a direct comparison of Actual Pack Cost for it?
Many modern engines can go 200,000 miles without a rebuild, if it costs $20,000 for new batteries every ten years, the buyer needs to know. LG Chem would be more likely to succeed, and develop better batteries, if its customers didn’t pressure margins. I would guess that too, and expect that the decline in 2019 would be the result of chemistry improvements (greater energy density) in addition to process efficiencies. Looks like LG selling batteries to GM at cost in return for partnership with Bolt to kickstart LG automotive. Dieselgate, this low battery price, increasing penetration of rooftop solar PV, strengthening climate change rules, strengthening car emissions rules, more EV & PHEV models, and other things will all cause a bigger market that will push down prices.
Lets remember that legacy auto makers have had decades to amortize away basic development costs for gasmobiles, and that they can spread the tooling-up costs for, at the least, certain common parts across all their lines of cars. All these factors will ease over time, as legacy auto makers add more and more PEVs to their production, and as they start selling in larger numbers per model. As has been said many times: All other things being equal, a BEV should be significantly cheaper to make than a comparable gasmobile. Well apparently GM is not so protective of the secrets of its suppliers, only its own secrets.
And not only was a number made public, which is unprecendented AFAIK, it specifically referred to a product (the Bolt’s battery pack) and a timeframe (2016), and said that the price was already contracted. Its such a counterproductive move at least from LG’s point of view, that they probably never even considered it as a potential problem.
Standard business ethics demands that you not reveal, publicly, the prices you pay to your suppliers.
At least GM will make the doors, the case and the slots… er, the body and the suspension.
While it would seem that LG is making the whole car, there are still hundreds of components from suppliers other than LG. If LG is doeing all the technological stuff, GM becomes a retailer that just adds a packaging a can. But I have to wonder just why GM would publicly disclose info that all other EV makers keep as a trade secret. New study by Stockholm Environment Institute researchers finds battery costs dropping at 8% annually. Swedish researchers Bjorn Nykvist and Mans Nilsson wondered how accurate projections on electric car battery costs have been over the last decade.
The authors of the new study concluded that the battery packs used by market-leading EV manufacturers cost as little as $300 per kilowatt-hour of energy in 2014. This strongly suggests that within five years, electric cars will be cost competitive with ICE-age automobiles.
Taiwan's Pihsiang Introduces Electric City Car, Utility TruckScooter maker debuts both a two-seat electric city car plus a flatbed electric utility truck.
Vintage-Style Electric Touring Car Debuts in New York CityVintage replica electric touring car that is designed to replace horse-drawn carriages in Central Park would cost between $150-175,000 apiece. Horseless e-Carriage Makes Debut In New York CityCommissioned by NYClass, this seven passenger electric antique touring car, was developed to be a humane replacement for the horse carriages of New York City's Central Park. While Tesla is slowing lowering the price of their electric vehicles (EVs), Nissan has already dropped the sticker price of the Leaf by 18% for a new price of $28,000. But this leaves the lower end of the market wide-open for exploitation, and an EV price war of sorts has set in. Keep up to date with all the hottest cleantech news by subscribing to our (free) cleantech newsletter, or keep an eye on sector-specific news by getting our (also free) solar energy newsletter, electric vehicle newsletter, or wind energy newsletter. Important Media Cross-Post -- CleanTechnica is one of 18 blogs in the Important Media blog network. The good thing about falling prices of electric batteries is that for the current Volt price $40,000 automakers could add more batteries to extend the range of the EV’s to 150 to 200 miles per charge. You’d think with all the energy efficiency along with the increases in battery technology battery life would have increased from 2 hours to 20 hours. I don’t expect technology is doing anything for us with the lowering of prices on the low end EVs.


If Tesla is forcing other car manufacturers to put more game in their game it’s a great thing. As for battery technology Tesla, Ford, GM, BMW and all the other car companies are not battery manufacturers. Battery manufacturers and startups are charging very hard to bring better batteries to the market.
Way late to the thread, but Damascus Steel was used in the best swords prior to the technique dieing out in the the 1700’s.
From the very first Model T’s, the efficiency of the internal combustion engine has improved a lot. Are those in-hub motors or are the motor mounted close to the wheel and connected with short axles?
They don’t need to disclose every tidbit like Tesla does, particularly without asking LG first. The 90 kWh Pack Cells have a added Silicon component in them, while the 85 kWh pack does not. Tesla has an integrated thermal management system for its battery pack, and apparently it works quite well, since the data on pack capacity loss over time shows a surprisingly low loss for the Tesla Model S.
The EV Insider refuses to acknowledge that batteries every have to be replaced, they quote electricity prices versus fuel. The upgrade price is across all the cells, a buyer is getting a different, newer technology cell. They do have a core charge return of $2,500 which is very low, but this is basically a price they have to offer but don’t really want people to take them up on it.
An auto maker making its first PHEV or its first BEV, or even (as in the case of the Bolt) its first BEV intended to be produced in more than compliance car numbers, is going to incur significantly greater development costs and tooling up costs for the new model. Since legacy auto makers can’t expect to sell their cars in as great a volume as their best-selling gasmobiles, they have to make up for lack of volume by a higher per-unit price. Unfortunately, this early in the EV revolution, we’re a long way away from all other things being equal.
Motor for engine would be a wash (motor might cost less), so only big price differential would be the battery.
Seems that this wasn’t a decision on the part of GM to make that figure public, but rather a slide intended for GM internal and confidential use, which mistakenly got included in a public presentation. Perhaps Koreans are not quite as strict about drafting NDAs compared to US companies, and since no NDA was attached to the pricing, GM felt it was fine disclosing it? The entire car won’t be made by LG Chem, altho perhaps most or all the power electronics will be, in addition to the battery pack and traction motor(s). In the case of the two biggest pure electric car sellers, Nykvist and Nilsson found their costs were at or below $300 kWh. That’s lower than the most optimistic published projections for 2015, and even below the average published projection for 2020. And without a doubt, that price slide is going to continue as the price of batteries comes down. The Tesla Roadster and Model S are the elite of the electric car world – and you pay for them with the Roadster fetching over $100 grand and the Model S sitting at about $62,500 grand after tax credits.
Meanwhile General Motors has announced that the next generation Volts will be $7,000 to $10,000 cheaper. Well, with technological advancement comes price reeducation, which we have been waiting years for. The consumer gets a playing field of the gas powered cars competing with the EVs and hybrids. Andrew earned a Bachelor’s Degree in Government and International Relations from Clark University and a Master’s Degree in Political Science from Northeastern University.
With a bit of overlap in coverage, we sometimes repost some of the great content published by our sister sites. So let say that the Nissan Leaf keep the price at $30,000 for the next five years, but at the same time double the range of the vehicle to 200 miles, more people will be interested in EV’s.
I spent a few minutes googling for it and wasn’t really convinced I found the right reference.
It was made from wootz steel from India, which plays a role in the Baroque Cycle by Stephenson.
The Model T was reported to have a fuel economy of about 15 mpg, not far off today’s average SUV. People apparently were content with 2 hours of battery life and chose to buy the biggest screen and baddest cpu. However the SLS AMG electric does have 4 hub motors a 750hp total and goes around the Nurburgring under 8 min and is described by various car shows that were allowed a test drive to handle even better then the standard V8 in the front drive to the back variant.


Whitacre is the inventor of the Aqueous Hybrid Ion (AHI™) battery, a reliable, environmentally benign and cost-efficient energy storage system. The intent wasn’t to compare the cost GM pays LG to the replacement cost of the Leaf and Tesla batteries. LG Chem gets other considerations as part of the deal, so other customers should not expect to be able to negotiate such a low price.
There’s lots of room for SparkEV price to go down, far under $20K even without any subsidy. Then GM raised the target price almost $10K, 2 months after POTUS announced the $7500 tax credit. Laptops once cost as much as a compact car; now you can get one for a week’s worth of minimum wage work. Now, visionary CEO Elon Musk is aiming to bring a new Tesla to the masses in three to five years priced near $35,000.
Now that prices for EVs are coming down, and it looks like state and federal breaks are here to stay, at least for now, EVs could soon start selling in numbers that rival many gas-powered models. In other words they know Tesla will wipe them out if they don’t get it together in the next two years. This first-of-its-kind battery, often used in combination with solar and wind energy systems, stores significant amounts of energy at a low cost per joule and allows for around-the-clock consumption.
Furthermore, it’s a performance upgrade for a premium car, so you pay a premium for that upgrade. Depending on the price of gas, the sticker price of an EV is expected to appeal to many more people if its battery costs between $125 and $300 per kilowatt-hour. And do not forget the federal and state breaks which will knock that price down a little bit more.
If the chart above provided by Deutsche Bank proves true, battery prices could plummet in the next decade. The EV and hybrid market has hit the mainstream, but consumers are wary of spending luxury-car-money on compact EVs.
In his free time Andrew enjoys writing, exploring the great outdoors, a good film, and a creative cocktail. Probably consumers were content with 15 mpg and chose to use that gain in efficiency to buy larger, more luxurious, safer, faster cars. Here there is promising progress as well, as EV World's interview with UCLA researcher Maher El-Kady reveals. The Tesla Model S and Chevy Volt are expecting significant price cuts in the near future, and cars like the Nissan Leaf and Smart ForTwo Electric Drive have already shaved thousands from their MSRP.
This is why the Tesla Model S has done so well; sure, it costs a lot of money, but it is a genuine luxury car as well. That means that gas powered cars will have to step up their miles per gallon range (and they have) and maintain a reasonable price.
The company that Whitacre founded, Aquion Energy, has fully scaled manufacturing and commercialized the battery with global distribution channels and installations in many locations including Australia, California, Germany, Hawaii, Malaysia, and the Philippines. Also, why is Tesla charging customers over twice as much per kWh as Nissan on battery upgrades?
No matter how you look at it Tesla is charging over twice as much per kWh for battery upgrades as Nissan.
Whitacre plans to contribute a significant portion of the money from the Lemelson-MIT Prize to create a fellowship to support graduate students and nurture interest in innovative energy solutions. Further, energy storage batteries for stationary applications have historically been based on lead-acid chemistry that pollutes and is largely unreliable, or lithium-ion chemistry that has proven unsafe at times. The resulting Aquion battery systems help customers increase use of renewables, reduce reliance on diesel, control peak energy costs, provide power stability, bring access to electricity in under-electrified regions, and improve power reliability to areas with unstable grid infrastructure.
His additional areas of focus have concentrated on a broad range of subjects that include thin-film solid state batteries, ultra-low temperature carbon-fluorine electrode materials and implantable neuro-prosthetic devices. He is currently forming a cross-disciplinary center at Carnegie Mellon University that focuses on electrode materials and structures with a variety of applications including water purification and biomedical devices. Whitacre is an exemplary role model and a compelling communicator who has been active in the Pittsburgh area through Aquion’s involvement in several programs that introduce students to science and engineering, including the Summer Engineering Experience for Girls (SEE).



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