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admin | next action todoist | 09.06.2015
Message: There are theories that the Imaskari more or less built Sigil, tough only a couple of things in the city could be ascribed to their style.
Message: If that were true, I'd personally have it be that the Imaskari of the realms were scattered refugees from Sigil whenever they lost control. Message: In the original theory - an excellent one created by Rip Van Wormer - its left vague enough for folks to spin it how they want it. Message: Going along with you thoughts Marcus, Robert J Kuntz says that the Maure familyin built Castle Maure and that it leaves copies of itself in other campaign worlds,e (and what-not).
Message: Hmm even if they did create Sigil, then why did the Lady of Pain intercede and take it away from them?
Message: I think the place was there long before the Imaskari, they just added something to it.
Message: These type of oriental towers do make sense for them, tough I don't like them that much aesthetically. Message: Yes, those sci-fi pics are also for the city, there will be wards with weaker magic, and higher level technology, from steampunk to the far future (no magic in that area). Message: Pointy Roofs for Netherese work for me - Anauroch wasn't always desert, and some of their Empire was pretty far north (extending into modern-day Hartsvale).
Message: Yeah, the hotel could go in Imaskar itself, its so laid-back (compared to all the rest). Message: I want to include a lot of magic technology in the background, just like in Halruaa. Message: I looked for more stuff to include in the city, how about this for an artificer tower? Message: I had conjectured (somewhere, at least once) that the Modron were an Imaskari creation that 'got away from them'. Message: quote:Originally posted by BladewindIs that tower being deposited by a huge Airship above?
Message: ok, back to topic, I started changing the factions and decided that the Preservers will be more influential.
Message: The thread is about an alternate history version of Sigil, the one where the Imaskari had a greater influence on the city. Message: If you take a look at my Misbegotten (Frankensteined) Realms, you can see how such a conflict was unavoidable between the two.
Message: Sigil is 20 miles long, not really impressive, that's nothing compared to a world-sized city.
Message: It's not about the mechanics, I collect any book with decent magitech, they're very rare. Message: I've stated numerous times in many threads that I happen to think all deities are ascended mortals (and that both primordials and deities should be considered 'gods').
Message: I've always favored the Athar point of view on the gods, if there is something with real power it's unknowable so far.
Netherese zombies are undead creatures resembling normal zombies that move about the surface of Netheril on various errands for their master, the Lichlord. There’s a sparkling of intelligence in a Netherese zombie – the last vestige of humanity left in its body.
Combat: Netherese zombies typically attack in force, seeking to overwhelm any opposition quickly. While engaged in melee, these zombies seek to pummel or claw their opponents to the ground.
A successfully cast remove curse versus 12th-level magic stops the transformation, returning the victim to the ranks of the dead. Zombies of Netherese variety can also control nonthinking undead (skeletons, normal zombies, and others) within 30 feet.
Netherese zombies are immune to sleep, charm, hold, death magic, poison, and cold-based attacks. All of these undead answer only to the telepathic will of the Lichlord, though he may from time to time appoint a wraith or spectre to command in his stead. Ecology: As zombies swell their ranks with those they defeat, it becomes increasingly difficult to oppose this wave of undead as it ravages the countryside. The worship of the Dark Hunter began shortly after the pact was made between the Gray Wolf Tribe and the Netherese. Shamans of the Gray Wolf Tribe entered Netherese ruins near Vellosk and emerged with visions of their god Uthgar transformed from the Battle Father to the Dark Hunter. You do not have to fight a Dark Hunter, but if you want click on the skulls and he will appear. Many of the Gray Wolf Tribe, especially the Forsworn, view this as a perversion, and destroy the Shadow Totems of the Dark Hunter wherever they are found. The Gray Wolf Tribe are one of the many Uthgardt barbarian tribes who roam the Savage North.
A recent allaince with the Netherese have helped the Gray Wolf Tribe harness their savage nature. My own take was that the Imaskari found an an ancient (Batrachi?) gate and built their first city around it - a 'holy city' dedicated to the god Aoscar. I asked Ed where he would put it but he hasn't answered yet.Maybe you could link Maure Castle and the Suel empire in Greyhawk to the Imaskarisomehow.
Was she a product of their creation, a living safeguard, like an antivirus with a mind of its own? Probably the mercane (arcane) were among the first who tasted that vengeance, they're really old.
Especially the followers of Air from Alphatia, the Akadi's dogma could easily work for a faction or sect in Planescape, or as the precursors of the Sensates, Chaositecs. Then again, one that behaves like the Domains of Dread - that 'reaches out' and grabs interesting locales and adds them to itself - is a cool option. In my homebrew material, the architecture of Thaeravel was very similar to that of the late Imaskar period (except Thaeravelites didn't have access to purple sandstone the Imaskari did, so they built theirs out of a similar Alabaster substance).
So I think a style that appears ancient, antediluvian, weird, and modern at the same time, neo-atlantean? It had a special name (type, not personal name), but I can't look that up anymore (and thinking about her, even subconsciously, is probably what made me think of them for the other Imaskari).Is this for your Sigil-version? The only pic I could find was This One, and it looks like an inadequately armored Tuigan stuck between an Imaskari and a Shou (like 'a rock and a hard place'). Obviously both empires would have widely varied architecture, given how long both were around. I think having most of the structures the Imaskari could have built in Sigil be in varying degrees of decay (they're all a couple of thousand years old at least) would add to the antediluvian atmosphere.
That was a last-minute add - originally I was going to post the pic of the sailboat-looking hotel, but decided that's the one everyone is most familiar with already (along with those man-made islands), and I wanted to show some other interesting sights.As for that second picture Bladewind posted - those 'trees' look like what would be left had the humans 'won' in Avatar.
Need to check all the 0 and 1st (too high?) level spells, there should be at least a few dozen of them usable for noncombat purposes, for normal life.
That probably doesn't jibe well with canon, though (I don't know anything about Modron history, or even if there is any).
I just happen to randomly find that video while looking for that song.I picture the Matrix being FAR into the future, well after John Connor is killed. I just happen to randomly find that video while looking for that song.It's really just an anthology series of short animated films that delve -- somewhat -- into the mythos of the Matrix universe. Based on that death cult from Bhaluin mentioned in the Horde, it could be one of the Imaskari philosophies that survived in the city.

I'm getting a bit lost LOL.I usually don't bother with other planes when I game, so Sigil isn't my cup of tea (I like it, but I wouldn't run it). And it's also about how would the Imaskari build their planar hub, for example is the torus the ideal shape for them, or something else, would they restrict which type of beings can enter inside, would they allow temples, would there be temples to concepts rather than to the gods cause there's so many pantheons, would constructs be more efficient than the dabus, how much would the level of technology increase, would the fey influence create different factions etc.
The hollow world idea in Mirrordin seemed interesting, I'll keep the torus tough, it did give me an idea for a spinning torus that creates artificial gravity.
In fact, one world (Equilor) could actually be within the normal PS universe, going by the description (how remote it is from the others).If they wanted to put the two together (D&D and MtG), they could just say the Planeswalkers have finally discovered the Outlands and Sigil. Theoretically the Lady of Pain can increase its size, and maybe a lot of space within the city is extradimensional. It felt a bit flat for me.Also not a huge fan of future-fantasy (dislike SW, if thats any indication). The Imaskari have long been acknowledged as masters of portal manipulation and dimensional travel.
I want to have 50, the number that was in pre-Great Upheaval days, so far have about 30.''Quale'' won't be DM-ing thisInstead of his version of wards with different physical laws, I think it'll just be five cities existing in the same place, with a difference in phase.
While a few of these creatures are independent of their creator, most are known to serve the Lichlord in one manner or another. It’s not uncommon for Netherese zombies to be wearing fine robes and jewelry, death shrouds, or other clothing that they happened to be wearing before they were converted into undeath. Each zombie speaks whatever languages it knew in life (typically common) and also communicates telepathically with the Lichlord.
While a few servants of the Lichlord have been known to hurl daggers or flaming oil, most Neth zombies prefer the direct approach. The Netherese zombie that defeats an opponent can then choose to raise dead on that creature, transforming him into a Netherese zombie in 1d4 turns. From there, a normal raise dead or resurrection spell can be used to bring the creature back to life as described above after being defeated in combat. These creatures roam the lands of Netheril searching for new recruits to add to the Lichlord’s army of undead. They also keep the personality and memories that they had in life, typically using these to their advantage in service to the Lichlord. In short order, entire villages are absorbed into a growing mass of destruction that sweeps up anything it encounters.
Under the light of the full moon, members of the Gray Wolf Tribe transform into savage werewolves. Now they may transform whenever they desire, making them powerful pawns of the Netherese in their war with the Thayans. Or could she be like one of the many beings that the Imaskari bound like Pandorym, and she exacted vengeance by taking over Sigil? THIS GUY has some phenomenal reference material (not all applicable to this thread, however). I'm tired of the medieval, my pc in the Kingmaker campaign now is an inventor, and that kind of world is too restrictive (and the DM ).I had a perfect picture of the Lighthouse, but can't find it anywhere. Especially the Netherese, with their very different enclaves.If the Netherese had built a piece of sigil (they may have, if different cultures get to contribute districts), then I would go with something similar to Dark City - the 'Strangers' just scream Shades to me. In other words, that area may have looked like the Avatar world (Pandora) once, but that is what it looks like after a few centuries of industrialization.
Basically, that would explain why their plane changed from Nirvania to Mechanus - the Modrons took it over.There isn't much about modrons, only theories that they are old as the plane and descended from insectile intelligences. There's an awesome short about the rise of the machines and the nature of artifical intelligence [which you might find somewhat useful], and it's really the best piece of the film, I think. Not only that, the philosophy evolved into the Whispering Way (from Pathfinder) among their more radical members.
As for the other stuff you are doing - working the Imaskari into Sigil and the various factions, I think I may steal some of that and spread it between Netheril and Imaskar (for my Misbegotten Realms).
The Thaeravelite Imaskari were know for dabbling with shadow-magic, whic is why those Artificers preferred to be removed from mainstream Imaskar society (It was also founded by Halaster). For my version I think the best way is to enlarge the torus height 10-15 times, and width even more, so it can have decent atmosphere (and population).
Some of my favorites are Dying Earth, The Book of the New Sun, Majipoor, Pern, and even Dune (which is so far-future it reads like fantasy). Once a direct attack fails, however, the Lichlord is quick to inform other bands of his zombies to attack with ranged weapons, wait until night to attack, or simply ambush opponents. As the transformation comes to fruition, the skin slowly turns a pale white, fingernails become sharp, and the eyes sink in a bit. Overall, creatures retain two-thirds of the abilities they had in life (so a fighter with 18 Strength would be reduced to a Strength of 12). Different shape, gates, caretakers, factions, wards, history, would they have an artificial sun like in Deep Imaskar? That is my own 'finishing take' on Rip's theory.I feel this is something that is continually repeated, on different worlds, by different groups, and that is how Sigil itself 'evolves'.
I had a pre-Sundering civilization in the Realms, like Alphatia or Azlant from Golarion, now that's gone, cause the people of Lantan are related to Imaskar.
Also a lot of statuary, a'la ancient greece.Instead of temples to gods, they would have schools of thought, dedicated to different philosophies and run by Sages.
I searched the pictures folder we use for the game, these are the best examples I could find:architecture and pyramids and fey influencethese weird towers maybe somewhere weird purple spiresmore like Sigil, with spikesartificer district, inspired by MechanusAnd He Built a Crooked Househouseartificer houseinterior, columns, crystals, huge statuesinterior examplemore towerscity devicesfor the high tech districtpoor districtruins architectureruinsGreat ideas MT about the balconies and flying, and invisible servants.
You have to click on 'Architectural sketches' to the left - although his regular gallery has interesting stuff as well, his architectural pictures are the bomb (some of his other stuff could even be used as fey-inspired Imskari art).You want to see some real-world magic? I like the idea that the Imaskari architecture looks modern in design (lots of twisted towers with buildings and roads on bridges), but don't go overboard with that. It would be cool to run an adventure where the PCs were immune to the effect, and wondered what the hell was going on.There are creatures in PS that look like them, the keepers, 4e already used that idea for the city of Gloomwrought (sp?) in the Shadowfell. Giving Orb Golems telekinesis and levitation powers in conjuntion with complex building orders would create a tireless workforce that costs no resources beside their initial building.
It appears though that ten thousand years ago they weren't the dominant race, only after the aphanacts (described as angelic creatures that crusaded to other planes) were defeated by the gods, modrons and inevitables gained most power in Mechanus. The cult from Bhaluin shares some similarities with the Dustmen as well, so I'll include the possibility the Preservers split off from them in the past.
The campaign will be in one huge city, no planar travelling.The Great Conflagration between them seems interesting. Thaeravel spellcasters were sorcerers, that could connect them to the Imaskari, they could've had outsider blood, tough I remember from somewhere it was draconic. The high-tech ward would then be above the clouds, in ''space'', the medium being like in the Astral. I had a lot of PS stuff, but only read-through the few things that interested me, or pertained to something I was trying to do.
Pathfinder only has Maelstrom (their version of Limbo) as infinite, think that's an improvement.
I've used elements of all of those in my games.I bought the FGU Aftermath rules years ago - that was great setting (or non-setting, actually). Ergo, the universe is indeed filled with deities, many of them having originated on alien worlds, and at least one pantheon should have originated on Toril (probably more, if we go back to the Creators).So what we get stuck with is a bunch of uber-powerful immortals who have more power then they know what to do with, but still behave badly in the same silly way mortals do. Netherese zombies are turned as spectres and attack during their normal Initiative (they don’t always attack last in a round).
Like Athenians, they would be very big on learning (similar to Halruaa), with an advanced public school system that helped select a child's future calling, and colleges of magic and artificery, etc.

Whereas I think 'gothic' for the Netherese (like the Necromungers), I think Persia-meets-Rome for the Imaskari, but on grander scale.
One of the reasons I'm going with this different version of Sigil is to have less gloomy atmosphere, no acid rain, or spikes, and with trees. About the decay, I think an Imaskari structure would be considered most valuable by the dabus (or whoever I decide takes their job), they would be first on the list of repairs, like a landmark. Most can probably work for a couple more thousand years afore they've slowly deterioted to inoperative status.I'd think some of these workforce golems could see more use in everyday Fearun aswell, perhaps as prized possessions of masonry and (road)construction guilds. Watching that video made me realize how easy it would be to marry the Matrix franchise to the Terminator one (John Connor eventually loses). Most can probably work for a couple more thousand years afore they've slowly deterioted to inoperative status.I think several versions of levitation spells, those with telekinesis would be expensive.
In 3e the plane was called Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, not sure if it was originally just Nirvana.
Eventually for the campaign I plan to use conflicts between different magical traditions, that could be useful for your Imaskar vs. I also use a minimal amount of interloping in my version, but thats fodder for another thread.Have you the excellent resource Beyond Countless Doorways? Interesting that both realms had people that transformed into phaerimm.I read Beyond Countless Doorways years ago, that architect could be an urban legend in Sigil, thanks for the suggestion.I did not know MtG had lore, do they have a manual of ''planeswalking'' or you have to collect info from the cards? However, they have changed their site several times so that might be them in a different format.
Perhaps the simplest way would to actually just say Ravnica is what MtG Planeswalkers call Sigil - its a big city, and there are probably entire sections unknown to folks who live in other sections (and Sigil could easily be world-sized). Including MtG worlds into the Wheel is easy, not more than the Beyond Countless Doorways stuff. I know most of the basics (having read through the main campaign set), but when it comes to details my knowledge is pretty sparse.I always took the maps showing Sigil and the Outlands literally (and that Torus looks pretty damn big in those pics). The system was so intense you could use it to duplicate any 'after the end of the world' scenario, from zombies to apes to machines. Classes on the 'care and treatment of bonded servants' (slaves - they would be smart enough to take good care of their 'property'). I know it doesn't have much to do with the topic, but this thread made me think of him, and I haven't watched that video in awhile.
Could be cool tough if the keepers move to the Undercity.As for Dubai, I meant the high tech ward to be closed, almost like living in a machine, so the glass towers don't fit. Nevermind, you already stated you were taking the darkness out.On another note, I will be following this thread and stealing from it unashamedly for my re-worked Halruaa (which is now a chain 5 islands). I'd think of all fearunian races the Raumathori might are most likely to have used Iron Golems for labor, and some might still be in working order.
Other possible spells, sound-based levitation, rays of acid and force (to cut and shape the material), soften earth and stone spell with temporary duration etc.
Inevitables are Indian in style, maybe that's their part of the name, modrons have latin Primus, Secundi etc., Mechanus sounds mostly Greek. I think the best location for the HQ is the Bones of Night in the Lower Ward, if not too creepy for recruitment. Netheril, maybe.Furyans, if I remember they gained strength from rage, I've thought about adding one such faction that originated from the fey, that gains power through emotions, kinda like the Sith.
If not then like you said in the other thread Aether and the Ethereal seem to have the same traits.
How big are the Outlands?I know its one of the few Outer Planes that isn't 'infinite', but I still thought it was world-sized, at least. The 'story telling' systems out there never appealed to me, despite my own love of the RPing (and story-telling). I don't like to mix fantasy and sci-fi in a way where high tech elements stand out, with machine parts visible.
Unfortunately, I never got to play it (it was one of the few FGU games I didn't get to playtest). And the LoP its last inmate?Regardless, I can't really help beyond my own cosmic theories, because I really can't picture the Imaskari building the entire thing. My Halruaa is an Imaskari survivor, NOT a Netherese one, and fairly isolationist (non-Halruaans are only allowed to dock at one city, and kept confined to a specific area). That could work for our home-games (and your version of Sigil), but not for the D&D and MtG lore in-general.Or you could just say that the 'Ravnica district' has an illusion of sky over it. There have been a lot of these simplistic systems done over the years, and none of them lasted very long. Magical devices that blend in, where you can't tell whether it's a wizard's staff or an energy rifle, kind of like the Asgardians in Marvel, tough not that ugly. Actually for the campaign I prefer these mysteries (including the Lady of Pain) and the past unresolved, only what Imaskari elements would the city have. You'd have the aristocracy (the true Imaskari people), citizens, non-citizens but members of the Empire who would have some rights, barbarians, and slaves. There will be quarters where one type of culture is dominant, usually near a permanent portal to a divine realm.
There will large ''park'' areas cause I imagine the Verdant Guild will have faction-like importance, backed by the fey influence. I need some numbers to crunch.I have to wonder, though, if this was the direction Monte saw for FR's future, and this new setting of his has something to do with his leaving (since he said it had absolutely nothing to do with the rules). You aren't trying to get a chest full of gold - you were trying to find a damn can of soup (or whatever).
Persians I think will be near the Grand Bazaar (the name comes from their language) picture 2 3.Gothic could work for the Netherese, tough I think the roofs should be flat, a bunch of pointy spires together like in Sharn look ridiculous imo. Mecha-insect swarms is a wonderful idea, there could be an infestation in the Hive, that ward will be under an industrial revolution. I really like the concept of 'Razor Grass' from Mirrodin myself (there is one illustration of that there).
Do you think Stargates would be too sci-fi for the Imaskari?I think the Iron Kingdoms explains it well enough to make it reasonable that magic hasn't overcome technology -- magic works, but it's much more difficult to make magical items than it is in other worlds.
You had to decide when you had to absolutely shoot your gun, because bullets were a very rare and limited commodity. And the summoner was able to pull a tear of Selune out of orbit, in much the same fashion as primordials did.At those levels of power, there really isn't much difference between gods and mortals. Hence the heavy reliance on mechanika and steam.Healing magic is also much more difficult in the Iron Kingdoms, and bringing a person back to life is very risky for all involved.
In fact, the only difference is the power itself, which is arbitrary (and artificially boosted for gods because they can tap into their worshipers).I guess the point I am trying to make - pertaining to the thread - is that I don't really need to decide if the Goa'uld are real gods are not, because to 'lowly mortals' there's no discernible difference. They'd fetch good prices for sure.I'd definitely want to see such things in everyday Faerun, or for those Halruaan blast spheres if it's too high magic. Hell, if aliens can fight predators and Freddie can fight Jason, anything s possible.It's possible, particularly with time travel, tough it would be a bit difficult to combine Skynet's origins with that city in the Arabic desert from Animatrix. And the AI's from Matrix seem more human-like, remember that Indian guy from the train station when he explains love, terminators aren't that advanced.
I'm going to have to think on that, and see if it can be tied into my other musings on the Imaskari.

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