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Toot mate it would appear your getting away from your first idea - keeping it simple - you don't want to spend too much on this SMALL boat do you?
Now imagine a clasp, like you have on the trunk of your car- it has two parts, one fixed, and one that is attached to a spring to keep it closed. This allows you to stand at the stern and lift the tube up into the boat, allowing the ballast to self-drain as you lift. The thread so far apart from your first posting has been about the methodology to get the water ballast in and out of the keel section as simply as possible. Somehow it seems that you and most other respondees have already accepted that the original hypothesis will work, and it now just a matter to determine how to do it. I must strongly disagree with the original premise and suggest we go right back to beginning and first try to determine if in fact there is something to gain by incorporating water ballast in the first place. I have never tried it of course, and I am not a NA, but I have studied university level physics, amongst other things.
In my humble opinion the relative bulk (not weight) of the water being pulled through the sea, lake whatever is going to slow the boat down dramatically. Don't take me word for it, and check with a NA, but I would be very surprised if he disagreed with my hypothesis. Originally Posted by frosh Hi Toot, Do you recall the original stuff you used to put at the bottom of all your early postings on this forum. As to your suggestion that this is wholly impractical and without benefit, I point you to Guillermo's post that gives a specific example- the MacGregor 26 which uses a design based on the very same principles that I am discussing here. You are thinking very much like someone focused on speed, efficiency, and sailing performance.
In fact a fresh water tank in the bottom of the boat has the same effect on stability than the kind of ballast tank discussed in this thread. Of course inertia around a longitudinal axis also increases with the added mass, and, as you point, the effect of this in real life is to slow down roll movement at its beginning, and, on the other hand, increasing the amplitude of the roll angle at the end of the movement. HOWEVER, there is nothing as convenient as water if you want to have some ballast in your boat, but don't want to trailer it home at at end of the day. Location: Portugal Water ballast is used in racing sailing boats and in some fast cruisers, but not on the keel. These boats have two water tanks, and the only one that is full is the one on the opposite side of heeling. The tanks can be emptied by gravity and they can partially fill by the pressure of the water created by the movement of the boat; a pump will finish the job. There are some Swedish powerboats that use an auto water ballast system to gain stability when still or running slow.
My suggestion is that there is nothing magical about water as a ballast material, EXCEPT you can move it easily in and out of a boat, move it around a boat and it will conform to any shape of available space. However if you don't need those qualities, then there are loads of materials that make better fixed ballast. Perhaps with a boat with a far lower DL ratio the water would be more effective , but for a heavy offshore cruiser , hardly worth the extra pipe .
A great advantage tho is the ability to use the 2in Edison pump to empty the tanks easily when chlorene and flushing are needed. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Hi Thought some of you might me interested in my latest project sketches.(full size versions can be seen by clicking on the images)I am designing a fiberglass sports cruiser boat for my final semester project. I don't want to dwell on the lack of fundamental skills but instead give you a decent roadmap of how to design a boat. The external dimensions are being set by the legal towing dimensions locally, although its possible to get permits to exceed them I was hoping to make my design work within them. I understand your dimensional constraints, it's always something that has to be dealt with in this size of boat. The new touring boat designed for touring the waters of Ljunljanica River in Slovenia is surely a designer masterpiece.
Boat Design by Andrew Bedov Automobile designers today are thinking beyond the available designs and technologies.
This can be a good way to earn more if only long island used boats are converted into something like this one. To the right of the picture is one solution (avoid the problem), a good one but for initial cost, eyesore value of boat lifts, and the penalty of a really strong storm (replace 22 foot boat AND 100 foot dock ). There are two possible categories of interest, 12-14 feet to take 25 hp or less and 4 adults, and 17-20 ft to take 90hp or less and 5 or 6 passengers.
Location: Ontario I can't think of a single planing hull, outboard engine type in the 12-14' range that I would trust to its own devices in waves like that. Storm tides usually made it easy to get the boat up on a mini railway if weather got bad, and with a light 25hp motor it rode pretty well. Among whalers, as many probably agree (?) the 13 footers seem the best, though they're tiny. Location: Cathlamet, WA It is hard to beat a flat bottomed skiff for a beach boat.
I focused on the 2 size ranges ebcause I think there are more likely satisfactory boats in those sizes than in the 14-17ft range, although I am sure there are exceptions to the generalization.
There are a lot of boats 14-16 or so that seem to be just extend-a-mold versions of smaller ones, without enough freeboard and bad weight distribution, as they are narrow but heavy enough to need a bigger motor. Some of these boats will scoop water over the bow from 1 foot chops even when drifting, and powering or anchored can scoop enough green water to overwhelm self bailing in conditions that are really pretty mild.
Otherwise a wavepiercing, self-righting monohull that is either completely watertight or VERY proficient at self bailing.
Problem is that if you have something designed to ride over the waves, it'll spend its entire life trying pull itself apart & ripping its mooring out.
Location: Cathlamet, WA My experience with outboard powered flat bottomed boats has all been with pointy bows, so I am not sure which choice might be best for this.
The smaller boats are a lot less mass dragging on an anchor, and can ride up the waves rather than through them in many cases.
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Boston Previous Member   which is why I posted lines of the Downeast hull form, so folks could get a clear image of the type of hull commonly associated with a lobster boat.


If your using a hull form of a traditional lobster boat people just might refer to is as such, specially if the top sides and sheer also resemble the layout.
Location: Flattop Islands Once again Boston you have posted a question that could be addressed by writing 3-4 books.
From Massachusetts to Nova Scotia there are hundreds of versions of Downeast Lobster Boat hulls, some good , some bad, some indifferent. Understand that these boats are built to make money, everything else is just gravy, if they don't make money they are put out to pasture.
Originally Posted by Tad Once again Boston you have posted a question that could be addressed by writing 3-4 books. A stretched version of White Pine will produce a very easily driven hull, if the weight is kept in check. I would imagine that often the boats are loaded down with pots only a few times a year, at least the inshore boats, the pots spending most of the time in the water. I?m in the process of setting myself up for retirement and part of the plan is to upgrade my boat.
I would like to be able to go across to Tasmania (120 - 450 nm depending on landfall chosen) or coastal hop up to the Great Barrier Reef and on to Darwin (longest leg I'd do around 450 nm). I do like the looks of White Pine but think it may be a little slow (her max is listed as 15 knots and I'd like to have some in reserve). The production boats available in Australia do not ?tick all my boxes? so I am seriously looking at building here (importing is not very attractive at current exchange rates) and we have 3-4 competent wooden boat builders where I live so this seems like my best option.
If she's kept simple (light) you could expect 14 knots with about 120 HP at the prop and 12 knots with 73 HP. I got some feed back on onother forum that the down east hull is stable to a degree but in heavier seas its stability drops off fast. I like the way the beam narrows toward the stern and I also like the ?raised? floor and kitchen up in the main cabin area. The head could be a fraction bigger so the ?shower? has a bit more room (I?d use this for hanging wet gear as well).
Finally, last night I became aware of some select grade Alaskan Yellow Cedar planks (6? x 1? & 10? x 1?) that are available in near me, so I am thinking that this would be a good timber for planking the boat as I?m told it is light, strong and easy to work.
She has a round bilge clinker planked marine plywood hull with an open wheelhouse and a lower cabin with moderate flare forward and good size cockpit deck, strongly raked stem, transom stern and hinged timber slatted marlin platform.
There is a very long way between these educated guesses and the real life finished boat, but the expectations are roughly in the range of possible.
The largest single weight in this boat will be the fuel load, so that capacity needs to be considered carefully. Location: Flattop Islands I'm also very jealous of the Yanmar engines available in Australia.
A 60' hull that displaces 53,400 pounds will require 44 Hp at the prop for 9 knots in flat water, no bearing looses, alternator drag, no current, wind, waves, no bottom growth, no appendages, etc.
Originally Posted by Tad I'm also very jealous of the Yanmar engines available in Australia. Location: Duluth, Minnesota cardsinplay,most of malcolm tennants net and tube cats have the outboard mounted in a pod hung between the mast and aft beams around the pitch center.
Location: denmark so how thin should be the fiberglass layer that covers the boat? Location: Auckland, New Zealand For normal boat cloth I was told to allow roughly the weight of the cloth in resin for a hand layup. I typically add a second coat of plain resin as it starts to tack off, then a 3rd with some fairing powder mixed in.
Location: Pacific NW North America Check into lighter cloths such as Dynel, Vectra, and Xynole. Right now I am contemplating trimaran with relatively wide, 480 long and 98 cm at beam 50-60 hight of the sides (I still do not know the proper maritime terms in English)canoe, flat bottom with two small amas, so it can be a rowing canoe by itself, and with the amas sailing. Location: denmark it is not bad but expansive and i am going to miss the fun part of building the boat. If you want to build a flattie it seems to me worth to think about a square stern if you will use it for a multihull.
Location: denmark thanks Manfred, i have more questions as i am going into the material.
To understand some of the merits of flat bottoms and a square stern please have a look at the tests of Ian Smith (Australia). Location: Central Texas Depending on location, you might find a source of plywood from a large contractor that knows multiple handle and storage of plywood used in protection tunnels and privacy fences around construction sites, cost more in the long run. Submarine Tom Previous Member   12 000 pound (5000 kg), 25' X 10' (8mX3m), 6 knot houseboat (not a floathome) barge. It's a dry bilge although I do have four 2000 GPH pumps, and 1400 amp-hours of house batteries to drive them. Location: Lake Champlain Also, happy thanksgiving to everyone and thanks for all the info. Originally Posted by indianbayjoe Also, happy thanksgiving to everyone and thanks for all the info.
I think Toms general idea is that way to go , although I would forgo the stainless fasteners . Location: North of Cuba Definitely use galvanized, hot dipped, not electroplated, especially below the water line. Originally Posted by hoytedow Definitely use galvanized, hot dipped, not electroplated, especially below the water line.
Location: usa Micheal, the original would have been nailed , I think the bolts were added at a later date. Even worse, I dont believe it will really add to stability at all, just increase the inertia that will be needed to be overcome when the hull starts to heel. Sure, with the water keel, and a gust hits the boat it now will respond more slowly to heeling forces, but if crew weight in relation to sail area and moment of force between CLR and CE of sail is insufficient to keep the hull fairly flat in the water, there will be no improvement ultimately to this imbalance with a water filled keel no matter how big it is.
This makes the total angle bigger than what strictly would have corresponded by what the GZ curve dictates. It is used where it increases more the RM (not at rest, but while sailing), on the upper side of the hull, on the opposite side of the heeling.
It works the same way as the weight of all the crew that sits there when the boat is racing.


I think in another thread I wrote of my experiences in the 70's with the same system in the Avon Seariders. The primary elements of the brief are to maximize deck and cabin space while keeping the boat towable. Cheers for the replies!I would personally be a bit careful with this, are your external dimensions driving the overall design or is there some flexibility in regards to dimensions due to the interior requirements (toilet, cabin, etc)? Wow thanks for taking the time for the long post Charlie!!I started off using an underlay to determine sizing but I gradually extended further and further from those dimensions.To be honest I didn't know how far I could push them before they became ridiculous, I guess I found that point.
The same is not just confined to the cars or bikes, but also to other means of transport like boats. Imagine a floating food stall that can fit in a group of people, isn't that fantastic? Most interested in planing outboard types, in spite of the issue of the weight on the stern. As it happens, I'm working on something that'd just about fit the bill, but that's beside the point. It would be nice to get the railway rebuilt eventually, though, that was a very nice thing to have. If it's just a one man operation, then add those flip-down wheels to the transom to make launching easier. No way they would be so popular among the fishermen if they were not well suited to it; not just the bay, but the open New England waters as well.
I have recently joined the Royal Victorian Motor Yacht Club and this has given me the opportunity to look at a wide variety of boats and narrow down what I would like?..
I have looked at a locally built boat, a Cheviot 32, and it is lovely but just a bit to small for me, plus access to the bow is more difficult than I would like.
Do you have any suggestions on how this design could be ?improved? to achieve (or exceed) these sort of targets while still meeting what I am after? The lower cabin has a kitchenette, a separate toilet with wash basin and two bench seats that have been set up to convert to a basic double berth.
Construction is simple, the lower hull is built upside down, sheathed with fabric set in epoxy, and turned over for completion of the upperworks.
Might find it cheap or in a real lucky day, they might pay you to disassemble and haul off. Anything with a density greater than water will be better as a given weight will sit lower in the boat. I have placed the cabin entry at the rear center of the boat because I believe I can fit the two smallest sterndrives required for the axius system on either side of the entry.
I did a pile of rough sketches and measurements and I believed the scale was correct but now I doubting it. To me it seems that most heights of boats would be close to half of what your suggesting, which may explain your proportions, is there a functional need for this height? There is a high likelihood that I used one of your designs as an underlay, The boats closest to what I was aiming for were all made by Brunswick, the Bayliner 285, Maxum 2700 and the Searay 260 and I used the bayliner 285 as my initial underlay.
The boat has primarily been designed to capture the picturesque locales of the surrounding areas of Ljunljanica River and being opened without any boundaries as it represents openness.
I would try to get the thing in front of something other than rock for the eventuality of it dragging and it won't be a disaster if it drags. I'd like to model that dory type to compare to the flat bottom skiffs here on the other side of the country, which often are a bit narrower up front. Brant rock ( well off the south shore ) has got so many buoys floating around it you could walk across em and its out in the middle of nowhere, definitely not protected water and we fixed plenty of boats that worked there.
The idea is to fill the weave without over doing it, and have enough thickness to sand without cutting into the weave of the cloth. Kayaks and canoes with pointed ends are optimized for 3-5kn and therefore have low cp (prismatic coefficient >50). In most boats we want to minimize the longitudinal roll period to get over waves and maximize the transverse period for comfort. The height of the boat sketch not including the canopy is roughly the max height of the canopy on the bayliner. Even you can compare the body of this […]Manta Bay Cruiser Was Designed With Great Concideration Of The Enviroment This new boat design will sure be cynosure of all eyes while also gaining brownie points as an eco friendly concept. The other option is to use minimum resin but lotsa high-build primer to fill the weave before you paint. I am still gathering and processing the info, not knowing exactly what kind of concept i want, since i want to enjoy all worlds.
I thought I would have some flexability with the boats height because of the weight of two sterndrives (roughly 1 tonne) down low.
Are running characteristics the same as trim?Should the center of gravity be over the center of a boat's planing surface or near the center of the hull?I was planning on moving from this point and designing the interior while modeling up the hull but its obvious that the dimensions and layout of this are not workable atm. To make it light and strong and cheap and easy to build and that there would be enough space on it (maybe even to spend a night) and the possibility to put a small mast and sail, that the amas would be retractable and light and above all, that it would be fun to built and to sail and not expansive that if I bang it or built it poorly, it would be wasting money more then the fun value of the building process itself. I will def do a set of package drawings before continuing and review how the hull shape will work from there. It doesn't have to be fast but at least well hydrodynamic so there would be as little waste of energy for the electric motor. Thanks for the links yo!I love the two 116' concept renderings (1, 2,).I am really impressed with these pieces of work, and they both include ppl for context. Finding the balance between the exterior shape and interior layout is very similar problem to neither styling or utility being in themselves enough to grab ppls attention, its somewhere between the two. Generally the boats are designed for an international market and then the trailers are produced locally. There is a fairly comprehensive brief and hypothetical persona but the key elements are that the boat come in close to $100k, include an enclosed toilet, a fridge, have a large amount of deck and cabin space and be trailerable. It def has more usable deck space and cabin space due to its height than anything I have found so far in this size of boat.
The interior is going to be challenging, but that can wait until I have a hull design to work within.



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