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admin | Category: What Cause Ed | 06.03.2014
6 And at midnight, there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
What is so confusing to me is that when the Mary’s and the Apostle John were standing there at the foot of the cross watching their Savior hanging in that tree, I do not think they were having a party.
This man Jesus was brutalized and murdered by the religious leadership of his time simply for his faith in God and because he refused to condone or to rubberstamp their organized traditions which were nothing more than the blind leading the blind, or a depraved attempt at self-righteousness and the humanistic endeavor of man approval.
I am reminded in Exodus when the Man of God sacrificed and went up into the mountain to procure that tremendous blessing from God for the Jews and for the world; the Bible says that he fasted for forty days. I was scrolling through Facebook the other day, the new ‘bulletin board’ for Christians and it seems like hardly anyone there has a care in the world! It is not my desire to rain on anyone’s parade or to dampen anyone’s spirit and we all have joy from time to time.
I write this Blog because years ago when God called me to preach He told me that “somebody has got to tell the truth because if not, they are ALL going to be lost!”. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 9 …Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. If you want for the Lord Jesus to come into your life and bring his peace, his joy and his power, if you want him to stop the hurting, stop the pain, and the utter hopelessness that we can sometimes feel. Imagine you have a blue pill and a red pill, and you must swallow one of them right now and not the other. I’ve wondered before whether Christians really believe all the shit they claim to believe. Christians: given the thought experiment above, do you really have a belief in the afterlife, or do you merely believe in belief when it comes to the idea of an afterlife? It would be nice to see some honest answers from Christians, but I doubt there will be many. And I shouldn’t be ashamed to admit that, yes, I sure do hope some form of afterlife exists!
Funnily enough, the blue pill would give me everything I aspire to now: A long, happy, fulfilling life where I am an asset to society.
This only leaves us with the original question by Luke: Would Christians really pick the red pill?
Your two-pill test would be a good way to remove the really fervent religious kooks from the gene pool. Actually, would you to actually realize such a test, it would be an even better test for belief about belief.
At one point Ned is trying to pull his wife out of the wreckage, and with much visible relief she says something like, “Oh thank heavens, Ned. These questions are usually easier for believers to answer if it concerns somebody else’s life. I posted the question to an christian that, if he were a surgian, and he had to between prayer or sterilizing his hand before preforming a surgical procedure. Now I forgot to ask what his wishes would be if he were to operated on, prayer of sterilization. Second, if my Christian beliefs are correct, this situation could never happen, and I would know the person offering my the pills is a liar. However Christianity there is a story about a dilemma like this one, where Jesus is tempted in the desert.
But yeah my first instinct, because I actually do believe this shit, was to choose the red pill. Whereas with the second form of the question I think you can see plenty of Christians being faced with such a question and tangibly and measurably picking the former to one degree or another.
There is nothing wrong with these sorts of dilemma’s they can tell us interesting things if interpreted correctly, even though we probably will never face them. Not only is the question contrived, so that people (Christian or otherwise) cannot be expected to know how they would actually respond if the choice were real, but people frequently lie about what they actually believe and what they have actually done.
Are there any Christians who think that their religion is hideous but still think it’s true?
The problem with this particular test is, most Christians (including me when I was one) would say taking the red pill is immoral and no different than suicide. Another possibility would be to first pray and ask for guidance and then just randomly take a pill. It has been said that there are as many beliefs as there are believers, as many Christianities as there are Christians. Is a person’s idea of a god the individual’s own ego released from the moderating restrictions of society? My answer: I would like to say I would choose whatever allows me to end up with God and pleasing Him, but I also fully understand that I mess up and have turned from Him before in being selfish, and would not be surprised if the blue pill was tempting. Are there any Christians who think that their religion is hideous but still think it’s true?
I think this is a more interesting question for me: assuming you do believe, how do you deal with this stuff? The only time that I find this really hard to grasp is in the case of someone who is sincerely searching yet doesn’t find before their death. Michael, perfection is an abstract absolute and like other abstract absolutes is impossible in reality. And I think that God doesn’t like Hell either, but it flows naturally and logically from His nature of perfection.
Its like when people ask me what I would say if someone held a gun to my head and said renounce your faith or you die, or anything along those lines.
So to clarify: You don’t have doubt about the existence of heaven, just doubt that you would get in when you die? I was going to include a nice comic from Wellington Grey, but it looks like his site is down indefinitely. The point is, sometimes we DO have indications that people will act as though what they profess they believe is false. So to clarify: You don’t have doubt about the existence of heaven, just doubt that you would get in when you die? In it, Merriam uses a thought experiment in an attempt to argue that most peoples’ emotions ultimately betray their belief in a paradisiacal heaven. Merriam asks you to seriously consider this hypothetical situation, and asks how it might make you feel.
Hmmm… I suppose I can definitely think up an evolutionary mechanism that would do this. While picking the blue pill may mean that a Christian doesn’t actually believe in an afterlife, it also could be that the Christian was faced with a false dilemma and was forced to choose between two things that he does believe. Additionally, I know many Christians – myself included – who say that if you are a Christian just to get to heaven, you are a Christian for the wrong reason. He also said that he will make many questions to Jesus because he never explained exactly what’s the Kingdom of Heaven.

I will bet that you can not name and demonstrate something that is perfect without using an abstract concept.
We hashed this same argument here months ago in Part II, and my conclusion remains the same: it is not irrational for a Christian to grieve. For several years after I became horrified by the doctrine of Hell, I still thought it was true. I found some comfort in universalist and annihilationist interpretations of the Bible, but I never found them entirely satisfactory and, besides, I couldn’t figure out why the Holy Spirit would let mainstream Christianity get something like that wrong.
For one, god is traditionally considered to be omnipresent, and that includes being present on earth, where there’s sin.
Additionally, the whole freaking story about god is that he washes away people’s sins. When they pierced him in the side and watched the blood and water run out, I don’t see anything humorous or funny about that. If you’ve ever fasted for anytime, then you will know that there is not much celebration going on while fasting. For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. I am just here as an ambassador of Christ to make certain that a people is getting ready to meet the Lord. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
If the road that you are traveling today to get to the Kingdom is full of people, you are probably on the wrong road. I believe you died for my sins on the cross and that you rose from the dead so that I could have new life in you, and so that I could have another chance for a meaningful life. KILL TERRORISTS!" I also have a Boycott Citgo sticker, and a science fish to annoy the fundies. If there is an afterlife, all your sins will be pardoned and you will spend eternity there. I actually find myself somewhat struggling with this question, exactly because I do NOT believe in an afterlife, but can’t rule it out either. Satan offers Jesus the equivalent of a long and happy life, and Jesus declines, presumably knowing he would face an immanent and horrible death. Some like Jim Elliot traveling to a dangerous tribe or house churches in China meeting under threat of death(really well) others by putting $1 of $1 million in the plate (not so much).
God didn’t lift one finger to save 6 million of his chosen people during their absolute darkest hour.
I honestly believe in Christianity, and yes, there are things I don’t find all that likable within it. Coming to the realization that not believing in God wasn’t some weird, aberrant thing that obviously indicated wickedness or willful deception. Concluding that not believing in God was either not morally blameworthy, or not very morally blameworthy. Realizing that their religion claims that cosmic justice dictates that God must (must!) inflict miseries on non believers worse than any crime committed by any human despot or war criminal.
Finding the explanations for this offered by their religion to be facile at best in the face of the absolute horror involved.
I honestly believe in Christianity, and yes, there are things I don’t find all that likable within it. I purposefully separated the question of whether it was true from whether it was abhorrent. Coming to the realization that not believing in God wasn’t some weird, aberrant thing that obviously indicated wickedness or willful deception. But I think, though I am not God, that if I could see into one’s heart and see their honesty and intentions in their search, that even though they never came to belief, they may receive the pardon anyway.
If you believe in a literal interpretation of hell (torture and flames), then I can’t see how that would follow. And I would hope I have the courage to profess my beliefs, but can’t say for sure until the situation actually happened. I wonder what other real-life markers we can draw, rather than rely on a hypothetical pill dispenser.
If you believe in a literal interpretation of hell (torture and flames), then I can’t see how that would follow. I was talking about my decision about which pill I would take and comparing it to the martyrdom question that gets posed as well.
Besides reminding me of The Matrix – it also makes me think about a video lecture given by Univ. He asks you to think about a very good friend or loved one who gets the exciting opportunity to land their dream job of becoming the 1st person to visit a planet outside our solar system. However, most people would indeed grieve if the spaceship exploded – in fact, we would probably view it as a tragedy.
You are guaranteed to never have any more interaction with this person except what they leave behind. I think he would choose the blue pill if he believed he would lost Heaven, though he believes there’s a Heaven.
As a matter of fact, the only ones that were partying were the Roman soldiers that performed the act on the Savior of the world. Think of all the threats, the venom and the toxicity that he endured over the telephone in letters mailed to him and by packages left for him at the door step simply for trying to exercise his faith in God and to empower a timeworn, threadbare people whose burdens were manufactured by committee. I realize that this is not the preaching and the teaching that some of you want to hear or are used to or are receiving today.
Democrats will cancel the Patriot Act, terrorists surveillance and missile defense programs.
Every possible afterlife with infinite happiness is negated by a possible afterlife with endless pain, sin absolvement notwithstanding. This may seem fairly compelling until one realizes that it has absolutely no bearing on the question, rationally speaking. Whether that’s because he knew Satan was lying and could not deliver, or that cooperating with Satan and rejecting his God-given purpose would be wrong, or if it was rational long term self interest the story does not say. Hell is a big one, along with the demolition of people groups that we find in the Old Testament.
And I would hope I have the courage to profess my beliefs, but can’t say for sure until the situation actually happened.
I think this is similar to people that are never introduced to the Gospel yet feel that something is missing. And the fact that He is so loving that he would give me, knowing all my faults and stupid decisions and rebellious actions, would want to forgive me and want me to be with Him is humbling, and in my mind makes Him worthy of worship. And maybe perfection is at least possible, and that is true by way of modal logic in that it is at least ontologically possible, just maybe not actualized in all worlds.
I do not doubt that if heaven exists that I will be there, I am confident that if my beliefs are true then that follows.

Unfortunately, due to the vast distances that will be traveled, and the limits on current technology, you and this person will be unable to see or speak to each other ever again. He argues that grief is an emotion distinct from sadness – that grief is something people feel specifically when they know someone has lost something deeply meaningful. He argues that if there is a heaven, then it should be the exact opposite… we should rejoice when people die. Suppose there was some kin selection thing at work that made you want to avoid losing the genetic potential… Wouldn’t this also make us bloodthirsty in connection with non-relatives? I mean, making the difference in this world for the best could be considered better than living forever in Heaven.
I’d question whether Christians really believe in Hell before questioning whether they really believe in Heaven. He then offers you the opportunity to give up your own eternal life and be destroyed into nothingness, with the guarantee that he will also annihilate one of the eternally damned.
When he returned from the mountain, only (1) was by the side of the mountain patiently awaiting his return. It was then that the Spirit of the Lord began to speak to me and to say: “Everybody seems to be so happy, merry and trouble free these days when we are living in a world of sin that is getting worse and worse, with multiplied thousands going to hell each day. I have question that I would like to ask each of you and I am asking it collectively and personally to you all. Because to teach like this will not ensure a parking lot full of cars on Wednesday night and Sunday morning or a coffer full of offerings and gifts, but I am willing to forego the ‘cream’ so to speak, so that you can hear what thus sayeth the Lord.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You can print them off yourself under the landscape setting with margins set close to 0, cut them out and tape them to the inside of your car windows. Just because this is better than what I expect sans pills does not make it better than the red pill alternative.
As a pacifist, I always say that I would not choose to kill anyone, no matter the consequences. But we Christians certainly don’t believe that Jesus was choosing a path leading to crucifixion just because his reward would be so great, and so the lesson I take is not to take any such choices offered by someone who is playing God so to speak, no matter what the benefits of the choices or the consequences of not choosing. But my belief in God and Jesus somewhat override my hesitations in these situations, since I also understand that my personal likes and dislikes or what makes me comfortable has absolutely no bearing on whether something is really true or not. But if God is just, I think that someone like Luke or John Loftus and such would have less torment or what have you than say Stalin or Hitler or rapists and the like. I think that we are judged by what we know, and the more we know, the higher standard we are expected to reach. I know that He dislikes Hell and that it has to exist, but truth is objective even for Him, and that shouldn’t affect His person and whether He is worthy of worship.
The point the part you quoted here was to say that I am simply not sure which pill, if these were in fact the two options, I would end up taking unless actually presented with the pills.
He assures you this is no test with a possible favorable outcome of letting you live for choosing to relieve the suffering of another. When you have occasion to look around at the world today including the church world, do you see a people that is ready to meet the Lord?
In fact, considering my current state despite it not affecting the outcome is akin to the Sunk Cost fallacy. Probably the person is lying, and even if somehow they are not, it would be wrong to cooperate with them.
I don’t at all like the idea that so many people, even ones I know personally, could wind up in Hell.
But I would say that this dilemma is deceiving, which I think rob pointed out earlier, since these are not really the options.
I don’t at all like the idea that so many people, even ones I know personally, could wind up in Hell. So while it may seem common sense that a minister would get into heaven, the standards that he is held to are much higher than that of a new convert and the majority of lay people. So why could it not be actualized in God at least as far as moral perfection goes, which is all that is necessary in this case. I would say that I would favor the red one, but I cannot say for sure, just as I cannot say for sure whether I would take the bullet or recant unless it actually happened. They were not thinking about the suffering that was taking place on their behalf by Moses, they were not thinking about his return. The danger of attempting to make a profit off of these is I use copyrighted material in some of my designs. The ones that rob lays out are much cleaner, and I think a much easier decision since it wouldn’t involve possible moral conflicts.
I know the common objection is how anything we could do on earth would merit eternal punishment.
They can do their best to guide me into making smart choices, but ultimately it comes down to me, and what my mistakes are not their mistakes, so they cannot be morally culpable for them, though it seems so often that we, Christians included, want to blame God for our mistakes and not helping us out more.
And surely that is feasible, for one to be morally perfect, since minimally this means never having been morally wrong, or possibly as far as being incapable of being morally wrong, though I think that the perfection required of God in this case would have to be the latter. Do we treat each other as if we are going to be neighbors throughout eternity or are we respecters of persons? However, if you had a nuclear bomb targeted on my home that I knew you would deploy if I did not choose, my emotions might overwhelm my reasoning and I would choose the red pill. So if one does not accept his forgiveness that is freely offered to them, then whether He wants them in heaven or not doesn’t matter. So if one does not accept his forgiveness that is freely offered to them, then whether He wants them in heaven or not doesn’t matter.
The answer is somewhat simple for me, and that is that God is always perfect, and as soon as we mess up once, we cease to be perfect and that taint is on us unless it is pardoned. To that I say own up and take responsibility, and so many things, not just religious but social and political, would be solved. But I see no reason to say that moral perfection, or any perfection for that matter, is impossible in reality and would love to hear why you say this is so, since you gave no support for your assertion. And I think that God doesn’t like Hell either, but it flows naturally and logically from His nature of perfection. So even if we get through life with a minimal number of these blemishes, they are there nonetheless. And since God is perfect, he can’t be in the presence of any sin, which is why it has to be forgiven. And the only way to be forgiven completely is to accept forgiveness, and that means accepting that Jesus died for our sins and by rising from the dead gave us the opportunity for new life.

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