Did a Muslim FBI Agent Refuse to Tape a Fellow Muslim Being Investigated?

Did a Muslim FBI Agent Refuse to Tape a Fellow Muslim Being Investigated?

by Bill O'Reilly
Fox News - The O'Reilly Factor
March 6, 2003

O'REILLY: Thanks for staying with us. I'm Bill O'Reilly. In THE FACTOR follow-up segment tonight, we are still trying to get the FBI to answer a very simple question. Did Agent Gamal Abdel Hafiz (ph) refuse to tape fellow Muslims, including Sami al Arian (ph), who were being investigated for terrorist-related activities?

So far, the Bureau has not clarified the situation, and we've called for Director Robert Mueller to do so. Mr. Mueller did, however, threaten to discipline FBI Agent Robert Wright if he came on THE FACTOR and testified about the incident in front of you. Agent Wright was deeply involved in the case.

But tonight, joining us from Chicago, is retired FBI Agent John Vincent, who was also an eyewitness to what happened. He is joined by attorney David Schippers, who is representing both Agent Vincent and Agent Wright.

All right, Agent Vincent, what did you see? What happened?

JOHN VINCENT, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I was part of a conference telephone call between Chicago and Dallas. In attendance at this conference call was three U.S. attorneys, two agents, myself and agent Robert Wright. Also party to this conversation, of course, is Gamal Abdel Hafiz (ph) and his supervisor in Dallas.

At that conference call, U.S. Attorney Mark Flessner asked Agent Gamal (ph) if he would use a wire to record the conversation that potentially was going to take place. At that time, Gamal (ph) refused. U.S. Attorney Mark Flessner pressed him and asked him why he wouldn't. And Gamal (ph) said, you wouldn't understand, it's a cultural thing.

At that time, Flessner pushed further, and finally Gamal (ph) said a Muslim does not record another Muslim.

O'REILLY: He said that on the phone? You heard him say that?

VINCENT: Yes he did. He said it on phone.

O'REILLY: And you wanted him to record a Saudi who was under suspicion of financing Osama bin Laden, correct?

VINCENT: Well, indirectly, yes. Actually, it was an official in an East Coast company that was under investigation by Robert Wright's case.

O'REILLY: But it was a Muslim individual?

VINCENT: Yes, it was a Muslim individual.

O'REILLY: All right. So when Hafiz (ph) says on the phone, and six guys heard it, a Muslim doesn't tape another Muslim, what was the reaction? What was the conversation then after that?

VINCENT: Well, there wasn't any conversation for a while. Everybody was stunned. Bob Wright and I looked at each other. We kind of knew what was coming.

U.S. Attorney Flessner said, "What is the problem?" And Gamal (ph) said, "I fear for my life." And at that time, Flessner said, "Well aren't you sure that the FBI is going to protect you?" And Gamal (ph) said, "No, the FBI can't protect me." He said, "The FBI, I don't trust them."

O'REILLY: Wow. Now why would the man fear for his life? Was the guy you were investigating that powerful?

VINCENT: Not at all. It had to do with the Muslim community there in Dallas. Gamal (ph) felt that since he was so well known and that if it ever came out that he had done this that there would be some threats to his life.

O'REILLY: OK. This was before 9/11, correct?

VINCENT: It was before 9/11.

O'REILLY: Did the case just die then or did you guys take it upstairs? Did the Dallas bureau chief for the FBI do anything?

VINCENT: Bob immediately -- Bob Wright immediately called headquarters and complained about it then. Later on, I went to our office security manager, and I asked that person to call headquarters (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what had to be done to file a dereliction of duty complaint against another agent. That security officer did, on at least two separate occasions, call FBI headquarters and never received a response.

O'REILLY: OK. Now how important was the guy that you wanted him to wear the wire on, and was it an undercover wire?

VINCENT: No, it wasn't. When this whole program came out, the bureau came back and stated that we wanted him to record this conversation in a mosque. That never happened. Then after they decided that that wouldn't work, then they said that they didn't want him to record the conversation because he was represented by an attorney, but that doesn't apply either.

O'REILLY: But how important was the guy you were trying to get?

VINCENT: Well, we don't really know. We never did talk to the man.

O'REILLY: But what did you think he was doing? What were you investigating him about?

VINCENT: Well, he was part of a money-raising scheme that was funneling money over to the Middle East.

O'REILLY: Was it al Qaeda? Was it -- because we heard it was Osama bin Laden's outfit.

VINCENT: Well, this is Yasim Kadi (ph). He was involved in organizing or paying for this particular company that he was working for -- this fellow was working for.

O'REILLY: All right. So there was an al Qaeda or possible al Qaeda connection there?

VINCENT: Yes. This individual also was involved in the Boston (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fiasco.

O'REILLY: I go it. Now, Mr. Schippers, the FBI has recalled the Agent Hafiz (ph) from Saudi Arabia, where he was sent after this incident, and he is now, I understand, under investigation by the Justice Department's internal affairs division. What is going on here? Do you know?

DAVID SCHIPPERS, ATTORNEY FOR FBI AGENTS: I'll tell you, I will never be able to figure this one out, Bill. I cannot understand why the FBI is putting their integrity in question over a totally indefensible action by one of their agents. There is nobody who can tell me that if an FBI agent can refuse to wear a wire when someone reaches out to talk to him.

It was the same with Sami al Arian (ph). That wasn't even wearing a wire. Arian (ph) called him and asked to talk to him. All he had to do was put an overhear device on his telephone and nobody in the world would have known that he was...

O'REILLY: This is Hafiz (ph) who refused to record Sami al Arian (ph). So that's what the Tampa people say.

SCHIPPERS: I'll tell you, Bill, I'm getting sick to death -- Bob Wright has now been totally gagged by the FBI. They go out and they call him a liar. They make statements about him. They tell people that he doesn't know what he's talking about. And then when he tries to defend himself, they say, sorry, pal, you can't talk. That's why...

O'REILLY: Well they're definitely trying to get Wright. I mean he was, as you know, an hour away from appearing with us and they gagged him. And said if you do, we will charge you with insubordination.

But I don't understand what -- Mueller is embarrassed now. This is out, OK? And there's still something floating around for the Justice Department to be investigating this Hafiz (ph). Mueller said it's not on the same case. Do you have any clue what is going on?

SCHIPPERS: Bill, it's probably -- you know it's what I call the Clinton mode. It's not on the same case. That's right, it's not on al Arian (ph) and maybe it's not on the Kadi (ph) case in 1999. But they are investigating him.

And what is so secret? What are they hiding? Something is being hidden here, and there's a reason that they're hiding it. And I will go to my grave trying to understand it. Aren't they interested in finding the truth?

O'REILLY: Listen, we know the truth. The truth is, I believe your two agents here, the guy wouldn't tape other Muslims. That's the truth. And he wasn't disciplined.

SCHIPPERS: I wonder why.

O'REILLY: I don't know that. But he should have been disciplined and he wasn't. And now Mueller is trying to keep us from finding out what the big picture is. But we're going to find it. Believe me, we will find it.

Gentlemen, thanks very much. We appreciate it.

When we come back, "The New York Times" is going to run a piece that may hurt actor Mel Gibson. We will analyze it up next.

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